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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 10:57:37 GMT
"hi carradice pooka & HSL in the observer board! miss you guys!" Yeah, same, Joe. Wish I was playing the game. But in the time I wasn't playing and worrying about the game, I studied more and more Japanese so, silver lining.
Same here about Joe!
About Japanese, that sounds awesome. Quite a lot of effort there! Guess what? last month I gifted a friend who is learning a brush-pen from the stationery section of one of the MUJI japanese shops. Great for writing nice kanji on a sheet of paper.
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 11:11:10 GMT
Heh, Bookwyrm's #1650. But hey he's Bookwyrm so he'll probably get off the hook unlike me, despite doing the same thing I did (by his own admission). Frustrating but it is what it is. Also you flipping town possibly has helped him a little, too. Sad but true. Funny if he turns out to be mafia (I expect him to be mafia hehe).
At the beginning of the game I expected 1 mafia between the three first voters in my wagon and 1 mafia in the rest of the wagon. It seemed loose scum play if there were more than that, especially between the three first. But the third being Dessimu and possibly being encouraged by Yogsloth with day chat, it was not impossible (1). Then Lift tried to mimic his townie self but in an unconvincing way. So yes, maybe there were three in my wagon, or maybe it is one of the others and it was two after all.
(1) As Joppo mentioned, Yogsloth likes to play with (=fudge) the expectations and rules-of-thumb of people when playing mafia for fun and profit. Which is nice since it makes for a more interesting game. ZFR does that with game design, which is great and provides a bonus to open minds, as Cadaver sort of mentioned in the game thread XD
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 11:14:29 GMT
"I don't understand GOG Mafia games anymore, it's official." -Cadaver747, 2022, colorized.
Possibly the less one writes, the better. If I am to play again I will try that, it is official!
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 11:25:27 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 11:31:03 GMT
Also, in any case, what the scum team has been doing has proved to be effective! They used the mistakes and flaws in the town team against them and succeeded to a large degree. They were very close to a clean win!!!
Edit: And still they might well win.
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 11:36:52 GMT
pooka: So who is the lovely gal in your avatar?
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 12:02:51 GMT
Gogtrial www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1822Very flawed logic against Catte. Catte said Dessimu did a U-turn (he did), and that Cadaver might be advising. Gogtrial then says that since Cadaver was town that voids Catte's reasoning. However, Cadaver being town only voids his "advising". The U-turn which was the substance of Catte's argument against Dessimu stays. Gogtrial has been using flawed logic in this game a lot. That plus his "epiphany" against Micro that Dessimu aped, plus his voting on D1 adds up. So, yes, Maybe. scum!Gogtrial might mean they piled 3 scum up against Pooka, while scum!Bookwyrm might mean they did so on D1. scum!Bucktooth means they did against Pooka on D2 as well. Joe the same. Pooka, it seems they really wanted to yeet you! XD Unless it really was Bookwyrm, then it was for me on D1 XD
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Post by The GOGFather on May 18, 2022 12:38:11 GMT
<joppo> Lift is totally letting transpire that he is scum. In #1828 he makes accusations without even bothering to be certain that he is naming the right person!
It wasn't ZFR that posted his flip. It was me Dio joppo!
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pooka
Quicktopic Mourner
What is a man
Pronoun: he/him
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Post by pooka on May 18, 2022 13:32:32 GMT
That's a nice gift! The fun part here is I have to ditch the handwriting if I want to learn the language quick enough to read manga and visual novels with. If I was still using handwriting I'd have taken a lot longer on the last few hiragana and all katakana (which I used an app to memorize). The problem is, I probably wouldn't be able to write much outside of my laptop and Android keyboards and...wouldn't be able to effectively answer any textbooks I find. More fun. Also, in any case, what the scum team has been doing has proved to be effective! They used the mistakes and flaws in the town team against them and succeeded to a large degree. They were very close to a clean win!!! Edit: And still they might well win. Yep, they didn't really need to lift a finger. The one person I was certain to some degree he was scum (and he was) got away with it for several days later until he got lynched on what seemed to be another issue. (I didn't pay too much attention I just quick skimmed). pooka : So who is the lovely gal in your avatar? Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI. Also known as Tina in Japan. Pooka, it seems they really wanted to yeet you! XD Unless it really was Bookwyrm, then it was for me on D1 XD Well, it was my fault that I was an easy picking and couldn't drift off of that accidental hammer thing with charisma and style. T'seems I'm still too early for these kinds of things.
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pooka
Quicktopic Mourner
What is a man
Pronoun: he/him
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Post by pooka on May 18, 2022 13:41:41 GMT
Let's be honest though, if I haven't explained already.
I find it very hard to be committed to D1 enough to justify even looking at any posts made in that time period. They're usually all mountains out of molehills, so I have a hard time committing myself to reading them or doing much. My whole concern on that day is literally "will we lynch someone this time?" and I don't really care as much who it is, as long as someone was lynched in the end.
By the time I've been more or less forced to read the mountains out of molehills (which somehow is seen as a bad thing not to?), the damage was already done and there was nothing I could do to shake off the heat. When someone commits to a vote, they usually don't change it unless they're happier with my defense or move on to someone else. And people in a Mafia game are hard to make happy.
That's okay. Honestly, Town has set itself up for losing, it's only a matter of time. I did the best I could given the situation I was put in and was almost a few votes away from getting actual Mafia lynched.
Yeah, playing as Town sucks.
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 21:04:28 GMT
I was going to comment tomorrow in reply to Pooka, but I just took a look at the game thread and noticed Bookwyrm's unprompted claim (we have three of these now) Dessimu votes for Gogtrial, Bookwyrm points at Dessimu. No one points at Joe nor Bucktooth. The stumping mechanic as revealed by Bookwyrm makes sense. Also the confession of being disinterested with the game makes sense considering the way he played. Maybe he is begging for a NK to put him out of his misery? The stumping is beneficial to Town as much as day scumchat helps mafia, so it is likely that he is Town after all (but no one mentions this in the game thread so far). So yes, Hyper was having difficulties with the game and Book was plain bored, while Dessimu was scum. That makes sense. Let me take a look at those wagons now. By the way, I wanted to mention this Yogsloth www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1859Not really a sea of vanillas but a bunch of interesting roles. For a well balanced game that runs well appart from the well trodden path. Please ZFR make more games like this. Possibly with a lumberjack XD. I wonder what the name of the Stumper is, Book never mentioned it.
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Post by carradice on May 18, 2022 21:35:49 GMT
Orrrrrrr Bookwyrm is scum and he was saddled with that role. The only guy he stumped by hammering was Lift. So yeah he may well be mafia.
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 8:37:07 GMT
OK it is simpler to think that that Stumper is town for simmetry with the player that is responsible for the day scumchat (that surely exists?). But the role might be mafia if the design wanted to compensate something with that. Also it would be deliciously twisted if the stumper was mafia hehe.
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 9:00:13 GMT
Let's be honest though, if I haven't explained already. I find it very hard to be committed to D1 enough to justify even looking at any posts made in that time period. They're usually all mountains out of molehills, so I have a hard time committing myself to reading them or doing much. My whole concern on that day is literally "will we lynch someone this time?" and I don't really care as much who it is, as long as someone was lynched in the end. By the time I've been more or less forced to read the mountains out of molehills (which somehow is seen as a bad thing not to?), the damage was already done and there was nothing I could do to shake off the heat. When someone commits to a vote, they usually don't change it unless they're happier with my defense or move on to someone else. And people in a Mafia game are hard to make happy. That's okay. Honestly, Town has set itself up for losing, it's only a matter of time. I did the best I could given the situation I was put in and was almost a few votes away from getting actual Mafia lynched. Yeah, playing as Town sucks.
It is easy to understand what you say. It is boring to deal with those "mountains out of molehills". When people want to make something out of nothing or they misguidedly believe there is something.
What I did to follow the thread was avoiding the people with low signal/noise ration. Meaning I scrolled past most of what Cadaver and Dessimu wrote, in this game. Else I would have disconnected from the game in the same way that Bookwyrm appears to be tired. For those players I checked what others quoted (not always) and now and then I picked a portion of their posts that seemed like it might be more repercusions later (like the dance with Yogsloth). The exchanges between Dessimu and Cadaver I avoided completely after their nature was clear (nothing meaningful was to come from there).
So, yes, pick your fights.
On D1 when I was getting flak mainly from mafia but not only, and I started to see how the votes might go, and started thinking of signalling to some townie who was making an effort in reading, I decided this:
- At least one of the three first quick voters was mafia. - The other two were either lazy/tired/busy or anti-nail-that-sticks-out, or both.
Therefore I decided not to engage with them anymore as at least one was disingenuous and the others had parked their votes without explanation beyond nail-that-sticks-out (for saying hi and wishing gl, mind), and even so they were putting the burden of proof on me to prove them that I was town, which is impossible. Hypersomniaclive expressed later that this player had done nothing to make him change his thinking. Of course, since said thinking was based on nothing, then nothing could change it. By replying to them I would only help them cement their prejudice and giving them some excuse to keep their votes.
So I adopted this policy that I might maintain in future games, if any, regardless of alignment: not answering questions from someone who is already voting for me. If they already made their mind, I will not provide them with anything. People may disagree or not. They can be right or not.
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 10:13:19 GMT
<joppo> Lift is totally letting transpire that he is scum. In #1828 he makes accusations without even bothering to be certain that he is naming the right person! It wasn't ZFR that posted his flip. It was me Dio joppo! Yes! he has been playing a very lousy game! The true Achilles's talon of the mafia team. Then a little bit of hubrys for Yogsloth and especially Dessimu.
As Pooka said, Town has set itself to lose and reacted very late. They were lazy and allowed scum to call the shots and herd them for very lazy wagons. Gogtrial vs Micro was lazy from town as well, since Gogtrial really had nothing at all.
One thing is that it is better to yeet someone than none and another thing is to infer that any yeet will do, which is what town assumed. There were people who kept lurking hard or acting against the interest of the town faction and got away with that as people went the way mafia wanted *shrugs*
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 10:46:40 GMT
Yeah, playing as Town sucks.
I actually like the scumhunting and pity the mafia faction a little as they do not have that. But at least they have PR roles to guess, so that is something. Also they have a more tight team, which can be enjoyable. Then, the challenge to win as mafia.
By the way, I like another thing that ZFR did here: he subverted expectations about roles in the game, their nature and even the names. I do not like mass claiming as either alignment. People abuse it IMHO when it is something designed to spice up the game, give townies something to do and figure out, and something to guess for mafia. So these roles weaken a mass claim (which is great IMVHO). Actually the people pushing for a mass claim have been scum.
What I do not like of being town is that some players that play to yeet someone else and surviving themselves instead of playing for the team and actually looking for the people who is acting anti-town, at least. That appears as ugly. Compared to that the burden of being mafia comes out as more ethically clean. YMMV wildly here.
So yes, every side has advantages and disadvantages. However, maybe the fun that you can get can be more affected by the team mates that you get if you are town than if you are scum (although a scum mate that is not a team player surely can make the game harder). What do you think, Pooka and mods?
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 11:18:24 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 11:21:37 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 12:44:12 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 14:05:21 GMT
Gogtrial pressing for a mass claim. Which feels as cheating, only that the ones profiting from this will be mafia.
How typical.
Wake me up when the claimy claimy thing is done with
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 14:10:19 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 17:22:26 GMT
Dessimu to Gogtrial www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1908Gogtrial should have lost town cred for Micro, yet nothing happened. Same with yogsloth prevented with thevdance, same with Dessimu himself. But Town has been aanaesthetized this game, everything goes. Catte started making an effort very late, and dedo lost some interest in reading the thread, and stuck to first impressions too long (still does). And those have been the people with the most thoughtful pro town posts appart from some from yogslothbin the first half of the game
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 18:50:15 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 19, 2022 21:27:25 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 8:23:05 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 8:45:41 GMT
Bookwyrm deigns participating in the thread www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1928>>Honestly, RL has been a much larger influence in my play Surely. It is hard to appreciate the way he played this game. When he said that he was tired/bored it shows. But at the beginning of the game someone (I think it was Yogs) called him out for not making an effort and parking his vote on D1. He retorted that he was a veteran of seven years and whatever. A more humble or frank reply about his lack of time or motivation at that time might have been better.
So even now he omits that he lacks motivation while he admitted to that before. This fits well with the fact that he never followed himself the advice he gave to Maxleod (IIRC): vote often, share your views.
There is a pattern of insincerity going on all across the scarce posts from Bookwyrm. It smelled like mafia but now it feels more like a personality trait. OK, I have his number now.
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 8:57:28 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 9:11:42 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 10:23:17 GMT
Interesting idea from Cadaver >>Every player which was killed by Mafia returned as Stump. >>Will you believe that it's Town doing? >> Don't you think that every player which was killed by Mafia player (NK or hammer) is cursed to be resurrected as stump?[/i] >>Because from my point of view it's exactly how it works.
Cadaver suggests that Bookwyrm invented his claimed role because the stumping is a property of all mafia players. Interesting!!
On the other hand, if it was true that there is such role as Bookwyrm claimed, there would be more to it. Even more than having a mafia player saddled with that. What if both day scumchat and tree stumps depended on the same player being "alive". Can tree stumps dry out and die if the player that made possible their creation "dies"? (If it is not like this, those are ideas for future games!) www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1941
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Post by carradice on May 20, 2022 10:36:47 GMT
Indeed Dessimu uses the flaws of reasoning of Gogtrial against him: Posting platitudes and in the end everything is possible and its contrary as well but follow him, he has a vision. >>@gogtrial: so, now everyone can be scum, except Bookwyrm? Well phrased by Dessimu.
Isn't it ironic that it takes mafia players to point out the flaws in the game style of town players? Remembering Yogs vs lurkers and lazy playing before as well.
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