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Post by carradice on Apr 27, 2022 9:12:05 GMT
Nearing the end of D2. Waiting for Pooka's flip. If he is mafia, his words are speaking very townie things to say, well done. In any case, town or scum he is showing a good face.
Else, lots of things to reconsider! Oddly, town!Pooka would not make Lift or Book look more townie in my eyes. Lift's accusation and Book's defense feel both opportunistic...
Micro, it is true what Yogs said, sometimes one forgets he is in this game, BUT we know that it has been some tough weeks for him, so it is reasonable to give him a pass.
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Post by carradice on Apr 27, 2022 10:21:35 GMT
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Post by carradice on Apr 27, 2022 10:28:43 GMT
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Post by carradice on Apr 27, 2022 21:08:28 GMT
Nice to see a spike of activity in the last day before the deadline. Seeds are planted for the following days.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 8:29:19 GMT
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 8:35:48 GMT
It is interesting how Lift's actions on D1 have backfired on him. Most likely, his leit-motif of "voting over jokes" (which itself is a deformation of LAL, since he applies it where there are no lies) has been too high-strung. Especially since he made a lot of the excuse on D1 and then seemingly forgot who said what. Some other inconsistencies, too.
Since Gogtrial was involved, this might mean that Lift and Gogtrial are not scum together.
Good that excessive use of meta has been cut short here. Same with the revision of GOG mafia leniency towards lurkers. Makes for a better, more interesting game.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 8:37:30 GMT
Guess what, this is an interesting time to switch from Pooka to Lift.
Let imagination fly: Book opportunistic lazy scum, Lift comes to the rescue later and votes for the wagon where Book took refuge (reluctantly in words, but going for a super flimsy excuse instead of not going for the actual lurker).
If scum!Book ^ (scum!Lift ^ scum!Pooka), why Book is not trying to reap town cred supporting one of the wagons? Because of debate on dayScumChat and the increasingly dangerous position of Lift (who has handled the whole business too carelessly). This might mean that they are in disarray and lost the advantage they got on Day 1.
Town!Book means that he is behaving noncommittally and does not want to get caught in a second Town wagon. Then Lift and Pooka can be scum together (which also makes for the simplest explanation). But most likely, not the three of them at once.
Time to start thinking about who will get the NK attempt on Night 2. Buck not getting the NK would make a suspect of them now, for the reasons stated about Maxleod's NK.
Catte is lurking so successfully this game. Same with Joe, but Catte's voting pattern is more interesting: unexplained vote on Day 1, then refuses to vote on Day 2. Doing what Book does, only more silently and with more sense of opportunity. Enough to stay under the radar while there are more hot issues, but surely to be mentioned more on Day 3.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 10:39:08 GMT
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 11:42:17 GMT
Seven hours until the deadline for Day 2 ... Six hours and a half... possibly things will move forward when people in the New World join today
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 14:33:31 GMT
Lift (and some other) never jumped on Pooka screaming "anti team" when hesaid that he was not going to claim... Heh. Might be a tell. What a lame end of Day, the only ones who did anything at all in the thread were Cadaver and Buck (voting for Pooka to Y-1, in an articulate way).
Dedo joins. Same, he already voted for Pooka XD
Four hours. The two players who wrote today in the thread already voted. Surely someone else will need to join. There is time. I would start worrying when it was about 2 hours before. If a newcomer arrives here past that time, remember to write restricted knowledge under spoiler markup, so that it, well, spoils the game for anyone who would like to figure things out by themselves.
Dedo wondering why does he look so townie in this game. Seriously?
This is a test for you to see, but the next one is a real spoiler
He did so to me at the end of Day one, he would have been my Watched of choice for Night 1 (before knowing about the stumped one). Apparently he attracted the attention of Yogsloth as well
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 15:27:58 GMT
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 16:13:07 GMT
Welcome Pooka Please have a seat, enjoy yourself
Use spoiler tags for spoilers plz
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pooka
Quicktopic Mourner
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Post by pooka on Apr 28, 2022 17:16:00 GMT
Hi Carradice
I uhh had a few things to tell you via DM, lemme remember what were those.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 17:42:39 GMT
Nice to be able to talk again with you. Not so much that them fools got you out.
If Buck was convinced at all about their vote on Lift, he should not have switched that easy. It looked facile. He could have offered to switch...
Also, Lift did way more to get his wagon, and others lurked harder. I guess thar Joe had written a couple convenient posts, same with Catte with Cadaver, and that was the difference on Day 1 when it was the time to look for lurkers. Once you got a spotlight, they and some others went to sleep.
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pooka
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Post by pooka on Apr 28, 2022 17:48:57 GMT
Okay I remembered.
By now, you have no doubts that my hammer was accidental. I still did want to end the day early when I had the chance, but as explained I would've let you explain your heart out. Imagine if D2 ended without Joe showing up on time? That's exactly why I wasn't too keen on letting the day go for longer.
I'm sorry I didn't give you the chance, either way. Guess I learned my lesson...uhh, the hard way :P
I still don't really agree about lynching lurkers just because they're lurkers. I kept being focused on the technical aspects of voting them, but I never touched on this part: lynching lurkers feels like giving up all the scumhunting and praying to Lady Luck that this arbitrary lurker turn up Mafia and not Town. It's a very lazy way to advance the game without actually expending the effort to solve it.
It's much weirder when this is literally my D1 modus operandi, unchanged over the course of 20 games, and yet I feel like I'm singled out too often for that.
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pooka
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Post by pooka on Apr 28, 2022 17:54:46 GMT
That said, from my skim of your posts here, you had a low opinion of my play early on, but eventually said I gained some townie points. What changed in that span? Did I miss it in your earlier posts?
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 28, 2022 18:20:01 GMT
Joppo here. Hello Pooka. Technically any theory I make is tainted by my knowledge of everyone's alignment since the game started, but based on your whole D2 I wouldn't have voted you either. D1 Pooka would have me far closer to voting you. I don't know if it would be enough to cast the vote D1 compared to other players however, because when I read the scumteam's actions I know they are scummy so it's hard to gauge if they would ping my scumdar more than you would. I guess thar Joe had written a couple convenient posts, same with Catte with Cadaver, and that was the difference on Day 1 when it was the time to look for lurkers. Cadaver? Certainly you mean someone else, no? If anything can be said about Cadaver it's that he's definitely NOT a lurker.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 18:49:55 GMT
On mobile while travelling. Expect typos galore! joppo: No, I mean, Catte engaged in some insipid exchange with someone, and IIRC it was with Cadaver. But it could have been someone else. BTW I get what you mean, with evaluating posts when you know the alignment already. Tgat was the motive for my little experiment during that lockdown game, har har pooka: The idea of going for the lurkers should be a prod more than an axe, IMHO. It should encourage participation and discourage excessive lurking, but a lityle, disappearing for a couple of days at a key moment? It remains a tactical option with potential risks and benefits. On Day 1 I liked that sone people mentioned lurkers, but a lot many players lurked more, all things considered. Once you got engaged, people ought to have given you a pass, IMHO. On D1 I never got a scum read from you, except with the way that the last vote was explained. That looked scummy. Maybe told in another way... Then it was a case for improving communication. For example, you mentioned that it was the right thing to end the day sooner, even if there was a refreshing mishap. That was fine. Mayb3 if you had focused on that side, instead of allowing that others focused on the mishap itself, you could have controlled the narrative (you had a good reason to proceed). Also maybe you could have offered to quickhammer so that others might have had to show support for that beforehand. For me it was OK, it is hard that anyone wpuld have reacted to my signals, apparently. I get what you meant, fighting uphill from the beginning for something that was not really wrong. So on Day 1 not vibes from you. Prod, sure, but then passvthe prod to others. Miscommunication at the end, though. Then, on Day 2, you stqrted like nothing had happened. I do not know if thatbwas good or bad in the end. Some might have expected more of an explanation, but that wpuld have been an excuse for targeting you as well. In any case, barring that, your posts looked very towny to me on Day 2 (noted at the time here). Plus Lift really earned his wagon. Eventually the penny dropped.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 18:51:57 GMT
Towny because they were honest.
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 18:56:34 GMT
So who do you think that would be the next NK? joppo: if ehat you know does not affect your choice that much,,, who would you choose for a NK yourself, if you had the coices that scum have? (If that is not revealing)
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Post by carradice on Apr 28, 2022 18:58:49 GMT
By the way, Pooka, with all we know now, who do you think that would be scum?
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pooka
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Post by pooka on Apr 28, 2022 19:25:54 GMT
Joppo here. Hello Pooka. Technically any theory I make is tainted by my knowledge of everyone's alignment since the game started, but based on your whole D2 I wouldn't have voted you either. D1 Pooka would have me far closer to voting you. I don't know if it would be enough to cast the vote D1 compared to other players however, because when I read the scumteam's actions I know they are scummy so it's hard to gauge if they would ping my scumdar more than you would. Yeah, it's different when you're in the game than when you're observing...and especially when you're omnipotent. Hi, Joppo! pooka : The idea of going for the lurkers should be a prod more than an axe, IMHO. It should encourage participation and discourage excessive lurking, but a lityle, disappearing for a couple of days at a key moment? It remains a tactical option with potential risks and benefits. On Day 1 I liked that sone people mentioned lurkers, but a lot many players lurked more, all things considered. Once you got engaged, people ought to have given you a pass, IMHO. On D1 I never got a scum read from you, except with the way that the last vote was explained. That looked scummy. Maybe told in another way... Then it was a case for improving communication. For example, you mentioned that it was the right thing to end the day sooner, even if there was a refreshing mishap. That was fine. Mayb3 if you had focused on that side, instead of allowing that others focused on the mishap itself, you could have controlled the narrative (you had a good reason to proceed). Also maybe you could have offered to quickhammer so that others might have had to show support for that beforehand. For me it was OK, it is hard that anyone wpuld have reacted to my signals, apparently. I get what you meant, fighting uphill from the beginning for something that was not really wrong. So on Day 1 not vibes from you. Prod, sure, but then passvthe prod to others. Miscommunication at the end, though. Then, on Day 2, you stqrted like nothing had happened. I do not know if thatbwas good or bad in the end. Some might have expected more of an explanation, but that wpuld have been an excuse for targeting you as well. In any case, barring that, your posts looked very towny to me on Day 2 (noted at the time here). Plus Lift really earned his wagon. Eventually the penny dropped. The discussion really shifted into about the merits of lynching lurkers and how they don't make for an interesting game compared to active ones who do drop more hints on the table and at that point it was just LAL, except it's Lynch All Lurkers it seemed. I continued on D2 as if nothing happened because...well I did explain what happened in D1, and besides I get accused a lot of doing too much defending and not too much offending. Besides, I wanted the day to start as if nothing happened so we could actually hunt scum. But eh, the discussion could never get past if I did it deliberately to take one for my team or whatever or not. It just didn't. I should have at least stated that my hammer would drop very soon, yes, instead of just outright dropping it. This buffer would've forced me to notice the final page and hold it. But alas, I guess I needed to have this lesson sooner or later. On the flipside, it only really happened to me at like, around 20 games or so. (I started playing at around Captain Sapphire the Movie which was #58 I think?). And...I guess I shouldn't have been honest about my thoughts on hammering during D2. I tried to have it both ways. Yes, I did think of it like that, "I didn't mean the hammer, it was a mistake, but I would've done it deliberately." But I guess it's nothing wrong if as Town, I hold back some info. I'd say maybe I could've lied there, but that's not really Town behavior is it?
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pooka
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Post by pooka on Apr 28, 2022 19:27:35 GMT
By the way, Pooka, with all we know now, who do you think that would be scum? I'm 100% convinced Lift is it. Now that I'm gone and my Towny status proved, I hope I'll see his wagon to completion. Yogsloth isn't giving me good feelings either. HSL I'm not convinced he's scummy, but I had the same idea in Captain Sapphire and that took us behind the sun.
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 29, 2022 4:36:58 GMT
So who do you think that would be the next NK? joppo: if ehat you know does not affect your choice that much,,, who would you choose for a NK yourself, if you had the coices that scum have? (If that is not revealing) joppo> There is no way I can answer that without actually confirming that player X is indeed a townie, now can I? Maybe I could put some spoiler tags, but then if I tell you the victim you might be able to conclude who is his killer too.
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Post by carradice on Apr 29, 2022 8:24:17 GMT
Damn, you are right. Like, what I said, having Buck not being NKd would make them suspicious, now. Silly question, then!
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pooka
Quicktopic Mourner
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Post by pooka on Apr 29, 2022 10:30:12 GMT
Yeah, I wonder who would've been NK'd.
You know, my not claiming would've also played some strategic importance if I had escaped the lynch. I'd be forcing the scum to consider if pointing their gun at me is a good idea. If it worked, they would drop a useless Vanilla Town sooner or later. But that didn't work, so whatever.
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 29, 2022 12:51:43 GMT
(joppo) > The scum did wonder if you hinted at a PR earlier, but I don't know why. So you had a point there tho it's still not guaranteed that it would lead to them choosing you for the NK. Either way, pity it did not work.
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Post by carradice on Apr 29, 2022 18:24:21 GMT
Hinting of not wanting to claim or support for the idea, maybe.
Claiming too easily when there are chances that it will not be necessary helps scum, to be sure
Let us see if the pattern goes on
Buck if stunting Dedo if NK with no stunting
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Post by carradice on Apr 29, 2022 19:30:44 GMT
Also, lurking slightly and trying to stay out of controversy is conventional behaviour for PR. Since Pooka seemed to start by lurking hard, maybe that excited the imagination of the mafia, together with the refusal to claim.
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 30, 2022 8:34:06 GMT
ZFR> Sorry I haven't read much in this thread past week. Been very busy.
If Watcher wants to Watch anyone, let me know, I'll add a spoiler tag as before.
Any predictions on who will die? And will there be a Stump?
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