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Post by carradice on May 6, 2022 7:53:44 GMT
Micro www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1110The paragraph in italics is nice. It looks like it might be hiding a claim as well.
+++++++++ Staring somberly off into space, Harry P the 9th, thinks sadly of his friend H Pott the 6th while talking to Har Pot and Ha Potter. He remembers fondly H. G. R. Pott's adventures as a certain rug-dealer who liked leaving bread around, an escape room proprietor, and magnifying-glass user. He hopes that he might one day get a message from him on discord. then, cheering up, he recalls the birds singing outside his window, and sneezes reflectively when he remembers the blossoms on the trees. Finally, he goes off and snores in an interesting fashion. +++++++++
The 9th, the 6th, sound like clues, appart from addressing specific players.
Also there is a curse hidden in the video, is that a joke from Micro?
>>He remembers fondly H. G. R. Pott's adventures as a certain rug-dealer who liked leaving bread around, an escape room proprietor, and magnifying-glass user. He hopes that he might one day get a message from him on discord.Yes, hopefully he is well. Also, there is a certain reference to breadcrumbs, and we can assume that this is what Micro is doing here.
It might be useful to take a look to a list of mafia roles, especially inusual or less obvious ones. Most likely not a cop or doc in this game.
zfr: An idea from this game for a minor/support role. When a player wants to use a PR over other player but gets roleblocked, well this PR will remove the block (and maybe when there is a block, it can be removed as well). I would call it a lumberjack since it removes the obstacles with its axe. To make it more interesting, there might be two options: 1) The lumberjack frees a roleblocked player so that they can use their PR effectively. 2) The player strips a target, meaning that it removes the protection of a target, so that any other players can reach the targeted player, as if any deflection or redirection cast on the target did not exist.
The lumberjack might choose one of the two options each night (or both if you want to beef the role). It can be useful for both town and mafia.
You can call it any other thing, like a sapper or engineer, but the idea came when reading the adapted Lumberjack song in this game, and it somewhat fits :)
It is a support role that does not much by itself, but can turn the tables if used well.
What do you think?
(Anyone interested is invited to chime in as well)
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Post by The GOGFather on May 6, 2022 10:26:26 GMT
It's interesting. I assume strip also removes Doctor protection (and bulletproof and ascetic), jailer, commuter... etc.
I'd have him use both simultaneously to make it a double edged sword. Like if Mafia is known to have a roleblocker, you can use it on a claimed Cop so he doesn't get blocked, but at the same time said Cop can't be protected. The Mafia have a dilemma then. Should they try to block the Cop and risk the lumberjack making their block ineffective, or should they just go for the kill and, assuming the lumberjack goes for someone else instead, risk the Doctor being Protected or Watched.
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Post by carradice on May 6, 2022 18:31:29 GMT
It's interesting. I assume strip also removes Doctor protection (and bulletproof and ascetic), jailer, commuter... etc. I'd have him use both simultaneously to make it a double edged sword. Like if Mafia is known to have a roleblocker, you can use it on a claimed Cop so he doesn't get blocked, but at the same time said Cop can't be protected. The Mafia have a dilemma then. Should they try to block the Cop and risk the lumberjack making their block ineffective, or should they just go for the kill and, assuming the lumberjack goes for someone else instead, risk the Doctor being Protected or Watched. Sounds like a deliciously twisted double-bit axe. Good idea.
So there are variations to spice the role up. And it might work for mafia too, depending on the setup. Stripping a target (with the risk of having two scum working on the same target, if case there is a watcher, and deciding how to manage that if caught) or freeing the fellow who is going to perform a NK etc.
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Post by carradice on May 7, 2022 15:41:17 GMT
For future readers: Micro got yeeted. As expected, he was Town. For the first time, a yeeting became a Stump. It is hard to interpret the sequence since Hyper left the game in a weird way. So it is not a property of scum themselves.
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Post by carradice on May 8, 2022 21:53:38 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 8, 2022 22:04:44 GMT
The second to "die" on a day/night cycle is getting stumped.
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Post by carradice on May 8, 2022 22:12:00 GMT
Apparently scum are trying to get a clean win. This is so much Yogsloth! They may well do that, but by doing so they leave an opening. If one assumes that they go for a clean win, they will not work hard on each other. Therefore Catte should come out clean. Joe's suggestion fits well with Town since he must be aware that scum is influencing wagons and repeatedly exploiting competing Town wagons. Catte's list is not bad. Although it might be simpler to think that Cadaver is town. Book, Lift, both have played the same, Book a bit worse.
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Post by The GOGFather on May 9, 2022 11:51:09 GMT
<joppo> I like this idea of a role, and just like ZFR I thought it would be very interesting if both abilities were used together. This way a player needs to be more careful when using this power or they risk becoming a liability. Like a Town jailer who uses his power to jail someone he thinks is scum only to later discover they were actually blocking the Town doctor from stopping the kill. No idea if the name of the role should be lumberjack or something else.
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Post by The GOGFather on May 9, 2022 12:54:22 GMT
<joppo>In my opinion it's a terrible idea. It would be essentially giving scum the excuse to lynch without explaining the reason for their votes. There is some basic merit on its surface BUT: Let's assume there are 4 scum and this is indeed LyLo. This means Town has to lynch right every Day from now on. On this D4 you would rely on Dedo+Micro+Maxleod to guess right. Then Mafia NKs someone. Assuming they hit scum, on D5 the decision is taken by Dedo+Micro+Maxleod+Townie#1 On D6 the decision comes from Dedo+Micro+Maxleod+Townie#1+Townie#2 And on the final Day it all relies upon the shoulders of Dedo+Micro+Maxleod+Townie#1+Townie#2+Townie#3 Wouldn't scum choose Townies #1, #2 and #3 specifically for being wrong on the identities of the scumteam? That's not even touching upon how disappointing it would be if the living Townies would just roll over and give up taking control of their own fates. Thankfully even Joe didn't take long to see the insanity of his idea.
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Post by carradice on May 9, 2022 15:57:56 GMT
Thank you Joppo!
By the way, overall this game is offering interesting options, as Sid Meier (of Civilization fame) likes to say. Meaning that as a compliment to the design.
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Post by carradice on May 9, 2022 22:52:03 GMT
Double post
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Post by carradice on May 9, 2022 23:03:57 GMT
joppo: That is why it is a desperate measure. Essentially they might even randomize the yeeting. It makes sense if they feel that the conversation is very successfully being swinged by mafia for their own purposes (it is). There has been talk about blind odds, even. The worst part is that if they do not have to defend themselves the conversación dies. So it might have more merit as a way to deal with MYLO and blindly hit scum. With that flip the game would change completely, sort of like restarting an engine. About the stumps, you know that already. For the guessing, it looked like Max was a good choice to be stumped. This is why I thought they knew. Else it was redirected. To be known later.
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Post by carradice on May 9, 2022 23:12:44 GMT
Essentially Joe is thinking about adapting to the inusual stumping mechanic and considering ways to make the most of it. This healthy, open minded attitude towards problems makes the best tactical thinking.
This is one of the good things about this setting. Little twists that might help those who try to think instead of playing like always without changing one inch.
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 9:17:33 GMT
Buck should not have claimed Vanilla unless he is lying. But because of his posts, probably he is sayong the truth (too bad).
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Post by The GOGFather on May 10, 2022 10:44:19 GMT
Buck should not have claimed Vanilla unless he is lying. <joppo> Yes, I agree. Not necessarily because of whatever the situation in this game is but more as a general guideline: You just don't claim unless a) it's massclaim time, b) you're close to being lynched, or c) you know the information you hold will have more value exposed than not (like when a cop gets a guilty result). I've seen a few times where unprompted claims led to Town diverting time and suspicions towards someone who was telling the truth and probably easing off some scum who was under scrutiny until then. Also if massclaim time comes you'd want the more suspicious players to claim first because the scum in the group will be more afraid of being confronted by a PR. If scumplayer claims to be VT they risk being confronted by some investigative (vanilla cop) or tracker/watcher townie. If however they claim to have moved by being a bodyguard|tracker|jailer|whatever, they face the risk of someone coming forward to say they're the real Town's bodyguard|tracker|jailer|whatever. Every townie that claims before they do reduces the pressure on them.
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 13:15:29 GMT
Buck has a point, regardless of alignment: When considering a player such as D., whose actions and suggestions have been at every step detrimental to the town faction, how can they possibly not be scum? At first I thought the same, then at the end of D1 I wondered if it was simply that the player had no odea pf what theybwere doing. Then again, both possibilities can be true at once!
So yes, it is sonething that Town had a good chance to solve on D2. Instead they went for a super lazy wagon against Pooka. Super lazy because he had been pocketed by Yogs, but afterwards he was very active while others kept lurking longer and harder. Even the alternative, Lift, might have been more informative. But it was D. Who should have been solved on D2, even if they have hinted at a PR (which might have been a lie after all(.
Then Micro was a notoriously bad choice, having much better candidates. But people wanted to believe that Gogtrial had something. Really?
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 13:17:37 GMT
Double post
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 13:32:56 GMT
Now the pressure is to hit scum or lose, without having hit scum even once in this game. So doubts remain unsolved. Except for good old... Yogsloth
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 13:47:37 GMT
joppo: Yes, rather detrimental to Town is town!Buck
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 14:10:39 GMT
Watching the game, ot is not entirely different from a soapbox opera XD with sone elements from Agatha Christie meets The Hangover XD
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 16:07:32 GMT
Lost a post... summary:
Why people just follow their biases. Some even admit it. Plus wishful thinking. Instead of trying to figure out if a pkayer can be of either alignment. What a terrible approach to decision making. A sure way to lose.
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Post by The GOGFather on May 10, 2022 18:44:53 GMT
<J> It's complicated, I guess. I think a few of the players lost games where they were bamboozled by skilled Mafia while feeling in their gut something was wrong. It would cause one to lessen the trust in their own judgement. I think.
And then there are the mafiosi trying to influence the votes, of course.
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 19:35:03 GMT
Yes. Do you recall any game with mafia this close to haveva clean win? Wait, do not answer since we still do not know if it is 3 or 4 XD
Anyway, this can be said: if Town managed to yeet scum now, it would be so much thrilling! With potential for a heroic comeback.
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 19:45:16 GMT
This post provides food for thought: in a situation lije the present one, day scum chat provides a great advantage to scum for coordinating and sending a barrage of votes and suddenly hammering with 3-4 votes at once without having to expose themselves to scrutiny suring thus Day.
Actually, only one player voting right now is really ackward.
It is a bit like the challenge for guerrilla that becomes relatively strong and can turn to conventional tactics at the cost of exposing themselves.
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 19:54:41 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 19:59:14 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 10, 2022 20:06:48 GMT
Unlesss he is only misguided lol Edit: But then Ockham's razor as his actions have all been anti-town all the game. This should have been solved way earlier, no later than D2... Also people gave Yogs a pass after pushing two days for Pooka even if the original reason to do so was way past and there was a number of players actively lurking. Edit2: Catte realizes this at last. Rinse and repeat doing the same all the game.
The option is between someone who does not know what he is doing and is harmful to town and someone who does not know what he is doing and is harmful to town AND drew scum. Yeet or yeet at the begining of the game. Now people has to decide, probably at MYLO. Between Catte and Dessimu, it is clear whom to choose with limited information. But of course, why people forgot about other tasty options such as Yogsloth. If he falls, most likely Town would find the right path to victory! But it wil be Dessimu vs Catte probably because of group dynamics Language analysis, D.'s excitement increases while things go worse and worse to Town. Even that should transpire to townie players.
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Post by carradice on May 11, 2022 10:52:23 GMT
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Post by carradice on May 11, 2022 12:13:44 GMT
<J> It's complicated, I guess. I think a few of the players lost games where they were bamboozled by skilled Mafia while feeling in their gut something was wrong. It would cause one to lessen the trust in their own judgement. I think. And then there are the mafiosi trying to influence the votes, of course. Sure thing!! I wonder that it would be worth it if people would try to figure out if player X's posts might fit either alignment. Else people just follow confirmation bias.
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Post by carradice on May 11, 2022 17:38:16 GMT
Gogtrial www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_75_harry_potter_vs_brokol_in_the_bizarro_pokemon_world/post1380Not true. First, they might be 3 mafia and one neutral or more. Second, even if there were 4 mafia players, by not myslynching they risk failing to NK because of night actions such as a block or roleblock, plus risk having themselves outed if there are investigative PRs still around. Then, they would have to weight the option of going for a myslynching and end the game or wait to the NK and risk losing the game. Both have risks. So, myopia or mafia, again.
And yes, the stunt on Gogtrial by D was a copy of what he did with Yogsloth. Rinse and repeat. Why people does not realize these gross maneouvers?
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