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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 28, 2022 17:22:37 GMT
book and catte, could you two mooks hear me INTERNALLY SCREAMING the last few days? So that's what that sound was!
That said, I wasn't touching that wagon, especially after my D2 opener and the complete lack of need for my vote for it to finish. There was some question of whether Lift might actually catch it, but either way both were probably gone before N3.
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Anyway, I have a bunch of notes I've been saving up:
1) With Gun Smith, maybe I claim to have a vig shot later, if pressed? Let the stumping remain in confusion.
1a) Might set Lift up for a Jailer claim, too, if he protects me N3 and I just say my shot was blocked.
2) Dedo either didn't investigate one of us, or else he isn't sure whether we're a town vig (if he did investigate). Remember that some Town roles may register as having guns, so it isn't a perfect cop.
3) Gogtrial didn't investigate Lift, and thus probably isn't a cop. Ditto HSL.
4) Dessimu's 530. That last line stands out like a sore thumb. Maybe a PR here.
5) We may have to bite the bullet and start hitting town pr's. There may be too many of them to let investigations and Lift try to compensate, especially for some of the players that we just aren't going to get lynched (like Dedo).
6) Maybe we block and kill Dedo on N2, leaving him with only one investigation to report, while Yog checks Dessimu. If Dessimu comes up PR, then we circle the sharks and go after him. Problem is that clears Dedo and leaves him completely free to hunt us, which may place us in the crapper; I'm probably a goner if we kill him, because there's no counter accusing the town!stump.
7) Anyone we kill loses the power to do anything but talk. Importantly, their influence in voting is limited to what they can convince the other players is true, so if we can bamboozle the remainder then we can win regardless (I've done this to Dedo once). We might want to go this route on some to prevent them from ignoring divisiveness and honing in on us?
8) Yog, that Jimmy Hoffa line was very on-the-nose, wasn't it? XD
9) NK targets: Don't touch Pooka or Cadaver.
Should probably avoid HSL as well, since he's gung-ho for Lift. If we kill HSL, I'm going to have to vote Lift (which might work out, because why would scum!Wyrm + scum!Lift kill HSL and thus force the vote?).
10) I'm thinking I claim Vig if/when the time comes and hope Town doesn't have any kind of role-cop type of ability (I don't think they do). Also, leave Dedo and HSL alive to be the scum team for us.
11) I look forward to seeing what Town thinks when they see what we were trying to figure out and why Max was chosen.
12) I'm thinking Gogtrial and Dessimu don't have investigative roles.
13) Buck is VT (721).
14) 760, Micro is VT?
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A) I could kill Cadaver tonight under a Vig shot claim even if I'm tracked. Depending on my number of shots, I'd do it as Town.
B ) I think HSL and Dessimu are good scan targets for Yog.
C) Dedo might make a good block target (whether to also kill, or whether to weaken his claim for later). Alternatively, if we can outguess who he would have scanned on N1, then maybe that person dies?
D) Joe might make a good kill target, but maybe suspicion flows his way for that hammer?
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 28, 2022 17:28:39 GMT
Anyway, we got super lucky! I realized something critically important after Day phase started, so I couldn't post it here. We have to kill every person that drops a hammer, because if Book dies, town sees how his role card works and it becomes an instant cop check for everybody that hammered. (For example, if Book gets yeeted D3, town sees how his role works and sees that Pooka was not stumped, so that means Joe can't be mafia.) Since Pooka hammered D1, we got lucky by getting him out of the way. We don't know that they get anything more than my role if I flip. It may be interpreted as "scum kills get stumped" or "deaths at night get stumped". Or maybe they get it right, who knows? Worth asking, I guess.
zfr Are unusual roles explained when flipped? I noticed Watcher wasn't, but it is a standard PR. |
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 28, 2022 17:29:55 GMT
Based on Lift's role description, mine might not be explained either.
"When you die you flip as Mafia Jack of all Trades. No further details on your abilities will be given."
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 28, 2022 17:33:15 GMT
zfr Are unusual roles explained when flipped? I noticed Watcher wasn't, but it is a standard PR. You flip: "Bookwyrm is dead. He was Harry Potter dressed up as a Brokol, Mafia Stumper." |
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Post by lifthrasil on Apr 28, 2022 17:45:04 GMT
OK. That Day went tolerably well. I drew a bit more attention than I wanted ... and I couldn't look into the thread all day because of a high amount of work. But maybe it was well that I was forced to shut up by RL for today. At least it played out to my advantage.
So, whom should I block Tonight? And whom do we kill? Do we stick to making Cadaver a cadaver to get a not-so dangerous stump?
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Post by lifthrasil on Apr 28, 2022 17:46:31 GMT
Or do we go with yog's plan and block+kill dedo?
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Post by lifthrasil on Apr 28, 2022 17:49:21 GMT
Also, I agree that Jailer might be a good false claim for me.
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 28, 2022 17:55:48 GMT
What is your feeling for the situation? Both in the immediate future (N2 actions) and for longer term plans?
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catte
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Post by catte on Apr 28, 2022 18:45:37 GMT
That was an annoyingly timed deadline, both in terms of day and time. The Day corresponded almost exactly to a very busy week at work. I actually have some bloody time this weekend but it's night now.
I started reading the game and composing a post only to see the Day is already over.
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Post by catte on Apr 28, 2022 18:51:32 GMT
book and catte, could you two mooks hear me INTERNALLY SCREAMING the last few days? I might have done if I had actually found some time for the game! This is the start of my free time. Good catch about the cop-check aspect of the stumpening and about needing to blockill Dedo. |
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Post by catte on Apr 28, 2022 18:59:15 GMT
Ok, that's good news about how Book will flip. If the town never find out about the hammering part then it won't work as a cop check like Yogs feared.
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 28, 2022 22:16:38 GMT
edit i am struggling with my braining
OK, good to know that Book's role does not get revealed in detail! Takes a load off my mind and makes the game easier.
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 28, 2022 22:24:12 GMT
I don't see anything special about Dessimu 530
and somebody made a candid vanilla claim, and now I can't remember who lol
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 28, 2022 22:29:28 GMT
6) Maybe we block and kill Dedo on N2, leaving him with only one investigation to report, while Yog checks Dessimu. If Dessimu comes up PR, then we circle the sharks and go after him. Problem is that clears Dedo and leaves him completely free to hunt us, which may place us in the crapper; I'm probably a goner if we kill him, because there's no counter accusing the town!stump.
bruh, you copied but yeah, anybody we kill gets stumped, and so normally I would have probably just taken a flyer on... buck, probably, but dedo's role is just too powerful he has to go and we have to take the risk he stumps us to death |
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 28, 2022 22:33:25 GMT
I should note, I'm a bit puzzled by balance this time... as absurdly underpowered as mafia was last ZFR game, we look overpowered now
Town doesn't appear to have any Kill Power, and I don't see a gunsmith and a cop together at the same time? Seems unlikely
The stump mechanic is town-sided, and actually quite clever, I like it. Interesting handicap. Not sure it makes up for us having 4/15 though with a couple of useful PRs.
But that means it's possible town has significant power in reserve we aren't aware of.
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 28, 2022 22:38:23 GMT
But regardless, bing-bonging the watcher and the gunsmith in back-to-back Days would be pretty solid.
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 0:45:03 GMT
I should note, I'm a bit puzzled by balance this time... as absurdly underpowered as mafia was last ZFR game, we look overpowered now Town doesn't appear to have any Kill Power, and I don't see a gunsmith and a cop together at the same time? Seems unlikely The stump mechanic is town-sided, and actually quite clever, I like it. Interesting handicap. Not sure it makes up for us having 4/15 though with a couple of useful PRs. But that means it's possible town has significant power in reserve we aren't aware of. We know they have a Watcher and a Gunsmith, both of which can reveal full results with no doubt or prior claim if we're the ones to kill them. We have a Jailer who uses only half of his ability each night, a fraction of a Role Cop, and a hugely active detriment that prevents us from controlling the conversation by removing voices we don't like. All told, I'm going to guess they have one more ability that wanders the night, and I don't think it is a cop, but I don't know what it would be.
Also, 4/15 is 26%, which while gut feel says is high because 16 players are needed for it to be 25%, it actually is pretty close (as was pointed out). It also puts the lynch numbers at equal: we need to lynch four of them before they lynch four of us. I don't know if that occurred to ZFR, but credit if it did and if it did then I kind of guess they don't have a protection ability.
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 0:47:11 GMT
But regardless, bing-bonging the watcher and the gunsmith in back-to-back Days would be pretty solid. I'm down for a blockill on Dedo, since that would solve the Gunsmith part of that issue. Otherwise we'd pretty much need to leave him alive unless/until I get lynched and promptly kill him as soon as I go down.
Any one else have any reads on who is likely or unlikely to have a PR?
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Post by lifthrasil on Apr 29, 2022 6:09:47 GMT
When we wait to kill dedo until Bookwyrm isn't around to stump people anymore, we don't need to block-kill him anymore. Regular kill would do.
But if we kill him tonight, we need to block-kill, so that he has one less confirmed result to share as stump.
Also keep in mind that I won't be able to roleblock anyone in N3. I will be Rolestopper in N3, if I'm even still alive then. I'll be main suspect on D3, and if you need so bus me, you're welcome to do so.
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Post by The GOGFather on Apr 29, 2022 15:08:45 GMT
Nightchat is so wasted on you guys...
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 15:37:46 GMT
Nightchat is so wasted on you guys... Day or Night, we're just too awesome to chat.
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Regardless of whether we stump him or keep him alive, I think a block on Dedo is the best plan. If someone else detected a role somewhere, I'm open to hearing it.
For the stump, we either stump Dedo or someone else (I'll nominate Joe or Dessimu here). On the outside, the story is that I vig Cadaver on N2, which means someone blocked the kill, but I'm not sure whether Town will buy the protection angle. Hm, Lift, how would Town!You feel about jailing Dedo for N2? If you could swing it, that would play nicely even if you get Tracked. I'm not sure if it backfires if you get lynched, though.
That leaves Yog's target. I'm thinking Dessimu or Gogtrial, but I'd love to hear opinions and reasons from the rest of you.
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 29, 2022 15:50:50 GMT
The problem is if we kill anyone other than dedo, there's no possible way to prevent him from getting and revealing a N3 gun check. I really think we have to block/kill.
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 15:51:19 GMT
What about this? We just skip the kill tonight. That doesn't create a stump, reinforces Lift's Jailer claim (at the cost of possibly increasing Dedo's Town cred), negates any trackers or watchers, etc. It does move the "Optimal Game End" from D4 to N4, which leaves us open to being vigged.
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 29, 2022 15:52:17 GMT
What about this? We just skip the kill tonight. That doesn't create a stump, reinforces Lift's Jailer claim (at the cost of possibly increasing Dedo's Town cred), negates any trackers or watchers, etc. It does move the "Optimal Game End" from D4 to N4, which leaves us open to being vigged. Horrible. You guys put waaaay too much weight into fabricating bullshit claims. We're not skipping the NK. |
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 15:52:58 GMT
The problem is if we kill anyone other than dedo, there's no possible way to prevent him from getting and revealing a N3 gun check. I really think we have to block/kill. Which is why we just don't kill him at all (unless I get lynched, in which case hopefully he hasn't claimed so his results die with him). Leave him alive to be on the scum team. |
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 29, 2022 15:56:56 GMT
The problem is if we kill anyone other than dedo, there's no possible way to prevent him from getting and revealing a N3 gun check. I really think we have to block/kill. Which is why we just don't kill him at all (unless I get lynched, in which case hopefully he hasn't claimed so his results die with him). Leave him alive to be on the scum team. While he gets off gun check after gun check? No. C'mon, guys, no. This is shooting your own foot off for no reason. |
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catte
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Post by catte on Apr 29, 2022 15:58:09 GMT
Yeah, I'm against skipping the NK and as Yogs points out - we have no way of blocking Dedo tomorrow night. Dedo stumped is better than Dedo investigating one of us on N3.
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Post by Bookwyrm627 on Apr 29, 2022 15:58:55 GMT
*shrug* Okay.
Lift block's Dedo.
I kill Dedo.
Yog action checks [x].
Catte sits at home, apparently doing nothing.
What's your view on whom to investigate?
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Post by yogsloth on Apr 29, 2022 16:05:48 GMT
I think catte should do the kill. No super special reason, just so he's our special contract killer expert lol
I'm good with checking anybody, I don't have any special ideas
Dessimu? I'm open to suggestions
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catte
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Post by catte on Apr 29, 2022 16:20:15 GMT
*shrug* Okay. Lift block's Dedo. I kill Dedo. Yog action checks [x]. Catte sits at home, apparently doing nothing. What's your view on whom to investigate? Well that's what cattes to. I don't have much of an impression of who would be good to investigate, my absence from the game this week was not feigned. |
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