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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 11:21:14 GMT
Is it an implicit rule of Mafia that there is only 1 person with each role every time? I don't actually know the detailed names of such, but if I remember correctly, there's a sort of guardian role where you visit someone at night to protect them from being killed.
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 21, 2022 11:42:49 GMT
Once you have a decision, please bold your night actions so that I know they are final. You still have plenty of time, though. I'll start the new day not before some time tomorrow.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 12:36:32 GMT
Is it an implicit rule of Mafia that there is only 1 person with each role every time? I don't actually know the detailed names of such, but if I remember correctly, there's a sort of guardian role where you visit someone at night to protect them from being killed. Not necessarily but people would naturally squint at redundancy as they sort of expect things to be fairly balanced (even though we tend to get some broken setup every other Tuesday :D). For instance 2 games ago (or 3? can't remember) the Town took a terrible turn because they bet it all on the setup being something that was vaguely hinted at in the sign up and couldn't accept anything else. That lead to some Columbo/Dumbass⟨™⟩ moments and the game was ultimately lost. What I'm trying to say is that even if the game isn't necessarily limited to a specific amount/types of powers the players are still likely to dislike redundancy especially if it can't be explained in a believable way. So you should keep that in mind and be prepared if you're going to fake-claim. The only thing that I find worse than getting caught is getting caught for the wrong reason. @lift, do each of us has to state his target explicitly or can anyone speak for the other at any point?
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 13:39:18 GMT
A pity we don't have an example of how a town power role would work. Going by the theme, How plausible does this sound as backstory (obviously I won't be going blurting it all out at dawn, but I can operate with the assumption that this is what happened):
Bobbin Threadbare has the power of the "Terror" pattern that he can play that is able to scare away would-be attackers. I visited Frost at night to protect him, but unfortunately my power was nullified, and Frost was killed anyway. I'm now confused and worried and curious about what power roles mafia and town could have.
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 13:55:40 GMT
As far as I understand you still need to have a foreign soul attached to your body which grants you that power - like how you're Conroy and can sing stuff away. What character would bring be granting you that power? Also, even though it's not impossible to get infused with a character from the same game it's probably a tad safer to mix it up a bit as people may be suspect of the coincidence of getting a random power that correlates almost directly to a character you picked yourself during sign-up.
Looking at our own roles we have all been assigned evil/antagonistic characters and our powers somewhat relate to them flavorwise (even if it's a stretch). If you're going to claim your actual role you could swap the Conroy character with someone else musical - what do you think about Edward Van Helgen from Monkey Island 3? He was a killer banjo player and also one of Guybrushe's crew so maybe you scare off characters away by banjoing at them?
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 14:00:31 GMT
One last thing on that topic - I don't really remember what your stance regarding Frostburn was during D1. Did you at any point state that you believe him to be Town? If not, or even worse, if you said you don't believe him your claim of trying to protect him would make zero sense and we have enough people who don't spare resources digging up old trash to find the discrepancy. If you did say you believe him or at least signaled it somehow you should be fine at least on paper.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 14:21:41 GMT
I don't think I made any comment about Frost at all during the first day, but the whole thing very obviously developed, so it would make sense that anyone with a role would try to protect/spy on him.
As for a better choice as a backstory, I don't really remember Edward Van Helgen from MI3. But that reminds me of Green Tentacle, who was musical, and fits the theme of "noisy to a level of distracting people, but still being unequivocally good".
So I could literally just be exactly my same power and role, except Green Tentacle instead of Conroy.
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 14:47:36 GMT
I don't think I made any comment about Frost at all during the first day, but the whole thing very obviously developed, so it would make sense that anyone with a role would try to protect/spy on him. For example take Cephy - they were absolutely convinced Frost is scum and lying. If Cephy is Doctor they are extremely unlikely to try and protect the person they suspect. Does that make sense? Anyway, as long as you haven't made any statements that you don't believe Frostburn you should be good.
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 14:48:46 GMT
As for a better choice as a backstory, I don't really remember Edward Van Helgen from MI3. But that reminds me of Green Tentacle, who was musical, and fits the theme of "noisy to a level of distracting people, but still being unequivocally good". So I could literally just be exactly my same power and role, except Green Tentacle instead of Conroy. Sure, whatever makes sense. And pray there isn't another one with the same character as you can be counter-claimed both on role and on flavor in this game.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 15:31:38 GMT
Yeah, that would be bad. But I'm not going to be talking flavour first thing anyway. Most major thing I'm worried about is that Frost has Guybrush's spirit :D
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 15:47:26 GMT
Well, it is what it is. We have no control over that so there is not point concerning ourselves with it. As a matter of fact if Frostburn happens to be Guybrush your claim becomes that much more believable as you'd have saved his life, no? If D2 starts and Frostburn or whomever our target is still lives consider somehow integrating knowledge about them surviving in your posts. The more subtle it is, the better so it appears you have tried to keep the role hidden a bit longer. For instance you can suddenly become that much more persuaded in his townieness. Others may way to assign his survival to him being scum but Town!Babark knows he protected a claimed power role and there was no NK so he put 2 and 2 together and figured out Frost has to be Town and was the NK target. Stuff like that which can later be used to strengthen your fake-claim if it comes to it.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 16:04:50 GMT
Do we want to go for Frost, then? Me using my role on Frost and you NKing Frost?
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 17:31:57 GMT
Let's go for it. We can set it now just in case and if for whatever reason you start having second thoughts, the selection can always be changed before the Night is over. Lift hasn't responded yet but it's customary for all team member to be able to program theirs and their buddies' targets.
Let's
babark sings at Frostburn
dedo strongman kills Frostburn
and if we don't make a change it will automatically resolve when the Night ends.
We still have some 24 hours left so we can talk more if you like.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 17:35:49 GMT
Good plan, good discussion, may we murder all those damned townies successfully!
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 22, 2022 7:14:53 GMT
What's your plan for D2? Do you have any top suspects or are you just going to wing it?
By the way, what I said at the beginning still stands - if you feel it's beneficial to turn on me go ahead and do it. If done at the correct time and in a believable way a good bussing can win games.
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 22, 2022 7:29:46 GMT
OK. Noted.
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Post by babark on Jun 22, 2022 8:07:17 GMT
What's your plan for D2? Do you have any top suspects or are you just going to wing it? By the way, what I said at the beginning still stands - if you feel it's beneficial to turn on me go ahead and do it. If done at the correct time and in a believable way a good bussing can win games. If we're successful in NKing Frost, and your plan for N2 is HSL, I guess I shouldn't be gunning for him during the day anymore, so I'll drop my "HSL and dedop in cahoots" idea. Honestly, it's a bit hard figuring exactly what flavour of stuff will happen after the NK, even if it is successful, I'll have to operate under the assumption that I was observed, but deal carefully with any observer (I can stick to my story, and it still SORTA holds up even when they mislynch the power role that observes, but it puts me in danger). I guess for now the plan is to wing it.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 22, 2022 8:24:56 GMT
Of course we can't be ready for everything - even if we manage to take out Frostburn there will be 8 Townies left at least 7 of which could be PRs so each and anyone of them could screw us up in a number of ways - from exposing one or both of us directly or confirming another Townie, etc. Still it's a good idea to have a plan in general. Pointing fingers at me is perfectly understandable as you expressed your suspicion of me on D1 and from your perspective things wouldn't have changed that much about me but be careful with HSL - he did effectively kick off buck's wagon even though a few people had already expressed interest in it.
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 22, 2022 14:55:23 GMT
Dawn is imminent. Please stop posting here.
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 28, 2022 16:43:44 GMT
The SCUMM Bar is open again! Have fun plotting and scheming and don't forget to bold your actions once they are final.
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Post by babark on Jun 28, 2022 16:46:11 GMT
Hahahahah! Your turning on me will probably protect you if I get caught, dedopBut it might work the other way as well for me. I pity we couldn't achieve a mislynch. You still want to target HSL tonight?
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 28, 2022 16:46:33 GMT
Phew! I was so scared we'd have a do-over of D1 and I'd help with another buddy's lynch. Your claim was excellent and so was your timing. Well done!
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 28, 2022 16:47:16 GMT
Yes, this is what I'm going for. If either of us goes down the other should get a serious amount of Town-credit.
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Post by babark on Jun 28, 2022 16:51:32 GMT
So nothing complicated? You and I target HSL together? Or should I target someone else? More importantly, what are our stories? Any advice for when D2 starts, and there are serious further questions? If someone is investigating me, they'll see me visit someone else, need to figure out the story. Who could I conceivably want to protect?
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 28, 2022 17:00:01 GMT
A few things to consider:
Besides RW's Motion Detector there is at least 1 more PR in the game. It could be Town or Neutral. Most likely Town.
It has now been officially confirmed by RW's claim that Town-related roles can also be associated with characters that were not part of the original roster. This makes things just a tad easier for me (you seem to have hit a free character even though we still have AZ and razza who weren't around to counter-claim).
I had a fake-claim prepared which would have killed me as I had Sophia Hapgood as my character LOL! Fortunately I have a back-up which may very well work - Commuter. That's why I suddenly "believed" RW's claim - because Catte said game 65 had both Motion Detector and a Commuter. My idea is for you to be using your powers on me while I kill. A lot of people seem to believe you so hopefully you won't be Copped or somehow investigated in a way that directly incriminates you. If the RW goes after you he'll see you moving which is fine as you're "protecting" your target. On the other hand if they try to go after me they'll get zilch which will be in line with my own claimed role (Commuter leaves the town during the night and nothing and no one can target him).
Considering your fake-claim and the one I have planned for me we could eventually even stake a no-kill Night if we think that can help us somehow.
More coming in a bit.
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Post by babark on Jun 28, 2022 17:03:18 GMT
So if someone investigates me and sees that I visited you (assuming we have some role like that this game), or if someone like RW straight out asks what I did, what would be my reasoning to protect you? And "knowing" what I know now about how my role works (can't really protect people from being NKed), why would I go after you?
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 28, 2022 17:09:50 GMT
I still like HSL for the kill as he is effectively Town-core for everyone and he's a very strong player. He can be relentless and among the current roster is the most likely one to put in the effort, dig up stuff that can get either of us cornered and pursue it.
The issues I see with that are 2 - 1) why didn't you protect him considering he was everyone's Town-core and 2) he could be Guybrush so we waste the NoLynch by not killing for free. Your excuse for not protecting him can be one of two things, in my opinion. You preferred to protect the other claimed PR RWarehall (I can't remember if you ever listed him a suspect in which case this won't work - you wouldn't protect someone you don't believe). If HSL is Guybrush you can just claim you did protect him and we are in no way worse than Today. They will be more likely lynching me than you in which case you should get Town-credit at least for a Day or two before people start wondering why you keep surviving.
Alternatively we could go for the guaranteed kill RW - we know he's not Guybrush and we know he's one of the Town's PRs. I believe this option is less beneficial as we leave HSL in the game while taking out someone who still carries suspicion. Dessimu is out for RW's blood which is really good for us.
The rest make no sense killing at this point as pretty much everyone is suspected to a varying degree by someone so we have chaos on our side.
What do you think?
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dedop
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What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 28, 2022 17:11:45 GMT
So if someone investigates me and sees that I visited you (assuming we have some role like that this game), or if someone like RW straight out asks what I did, what would be my reasoning to protect you? And "knowing" what I know now about how my role works (can't really protect people from being NKed), why would I go after you? This would be a Tracker. Having a Motion Detector in the game makes having a proper Tracker unlikely. I'd say it's a low risk/high reward play. Of course it's a gamble but I think it's worth it.
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Post by babark on Jun 28, 2022 17:17:27 GMT
Ah, so you feel that this game wouldn't have a straight out tracker? I'm sorry for being so dumb about this, but a tracker could follow you, and a detective would stay where you are and see if someone (including yourself) comes/goes/does something?
I don't think I can claim to be "protecting" anyone, as I straight out said my role doesn't seem to work well (they suspect a strongman), but then RWH also asked straight out about whether my role stops NKs, and I gave an answer that suggests it doesn't.
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Post by babark on Jun 28, 2022 17:29:30 GMT
Also, you probably have more experience with this than me (if a similar setup occurred before), but if you NK someone who happens to be Guybrush, and I take credit for saving them, would flavour text and descriptions of the event not straight up contradict that?
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