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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 10, 2022 20:32:17 GMT
Hi, this is the Scumm Bar where all the villains of the Lucas Arts universe hang out. No, you can't have an autograph of Darth Vader. He's on a mission to recover some plans.
If you can read this and aren't part of the scum team of the Lucas Arts Mafia game - or my co-moderator - please stop reading and don't visit this thread again until the game is over.
And now: have fun being evil!
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 13, 2022 20:38:25 GMT
Hi all, you may post here one greeting post to your fellow Mafioso. But after that, this chat will be locked until Nightfall.
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Post by bucktoothgamer on Jun 13, 2022 21:56:20 GMT
Hello my fellow Scum, I look forward to acting aloof in the day and getting stabby/shooty in the nighttime with all of you.
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Post by babark on Jun 14, 2022 7:50:56 GMT
Greetings, fellow Dark-Lukites! Looking forward to stabbing with you as well!
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 14, 2022 9:37:12 GMT
How do you do, fellow scummVM?
I'm Guybrush Threepwood but in reality I'm LeChuck and I only control Guybrush's body. My role is hampered strongman - this means I can kill everyone and no amount of Doctoring or blocking would be able to prevent it. The only one I won't ever be able to kill is the real Guybrush (the one who carries his soul inside his body).
Lift said we are allowed to share our roles so it's up to him whether he'll allow one more post from each of you guys to say what you can do before closing the chat. If he doesn't - you at least know who I am.
Good luck and don't be afraid to bus me if you feel even the slightest need to do so!
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 14, 2022 11:17:30 GMT
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Post by babark on Jun 14, 2022 16:09:18 GMT
I have the power of Conroy Bumpus, and thus can sing any attempt at anything away- a rolestopper
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Post by bucktoothgamer on Jun 14, 2022 16:54:24 GMT
I am Manny Calavera, but have been possessed by the purple tentacle. I am an ordinary mafia goon.
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Post by The GOGFather on Jun 20, 2022 16:07:47 GMT
You may chat here now. With the exception of bucktoothgamer. Who is dead.
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Post by babark on Jun 20, 2022 16:10:19 GMT
Alas poor Purple Tentacle, at least you were just a goon :P.
How to utilise our powers efficiently, dedo?
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Post by babark on Jun 20, 2022 16:15:12 GMT
Also, dedop, could you explain your role to me, I'm not sure I understand. Who is the "real Guybrush" who you cannot kill?
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 20, 2022 16:15:31 GMT
Sorry it had to come to this buck. I was looking forward to killing, lying, killing and lying together. And killing, I guess. babark, I'll be with you in a couple of hours as I'm at work still. Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas on how we should proceed forward. I'll be on in a couple of hours from now.
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Post by babark on Jun 20, 2022 16:19:02 GMT
Our old nemesis time zones strikes again! It's late here, and I have work tomorrow morning, so I'll probably be off soon, and not return until like 10 hours later (and then I'll be at work, so won't be able to do a lot of detailed posts). Hopefully night can last long enough that we can do what we want to do properly. Do we believe Frost about his claim of having a role? I don't think anyone really suspects you, but should I try "protecting myself" tonight so I'm not found out?
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Post by babark on Jun 20, 2022 16:32:34 GMT
Oh, turns out I can't self-target, so I get the feeling that Frost (if he has any role) will be...doing something to me? I'm pretty sure he's mostly expected to be killed tonight, so you could just go ahead and kill him (since I'm pretty sure he'll also be protected by someone if there is some protector role). I'm not sure how my rolestopper power would be useful today, I could protect you, but I doubt anyone would be doing anything to you. Is there some reason to target someone else to be protected from having some action done on them? Maybe a suspicious person likely to be investigated so that they get no result?
I'm confused :D. But it turns out we have 48 hours to plan our plan.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 20, 2022 18:58:32 GMT
When is your ideal time-frame for a lengthier real-time discussion? I'll do my best to make myself available. Until then some things to consider:
1. How does your role work exactly? From your initial post I got the impression you block another player from using their powers by targeting them (a role stopper/blocker would usually work in this way) rather the protecting someone from being acted upon (that's more in line with a Jailer). You not being able to self-target sort of supports the former.
2. There is a negligible chance Frostburn lied about having a role in order to survive but also attract our NK. He could be Vanilla bluffing to waste our kill while also giving chance to other powers to observe us dealing with him but that seems very unlikely. If it turns out to be the case good for him for having the stones to try something like this. But I think it's unlikely. So let's just assume he does have a special power and we want to take that into account.
We can do a few things about him:
I can kill him to make sure no protection can save him which should negate any Jailers, Doctors and such. Problematic scenarios would be if they have a Watcher who targets him, they have a Tracker who targets me or Frostburn carries the soul of the real Guybrush. The last one means my kill would just fail because that person (and this could be a red herring and there may not be such a character in the game) is the only one I can't kill no matter what. You could also do the killing to play around him potentially being Guybrush but in my opinion this is a waste of both of our powers. We are now playing from behind and we can't afford to play it too safe, we'll have to take risks.
Or you can block him while I kill someone else. Ideally you'll stop his role and if he happens to be some investigator he'll be alive in the morning with nothing to share which works against him and may keep the people who doubt him suspicious still. On the other hand there are other people who are a lot more dangerous if left alive.
Or we hope he has some weak role or his action doesn't affect the game in any way that is negative for us and use our powers on the more threatening players. I believe the middle option has the best potential but maybe I'm wrong.
3. This brings me to the next point which is the NK target. Initially I had other ideas but at this point I think our kill would be best used on ZFR or HSL. The reason is that both of them are strong players and are likely generally Town-read by a lot of other people. In my opinion HSL has gotten a ton of Town credit by effectively giving life to buck's wagon. He can also be extremely annoying (sorry HSL, no offense meant) as he's very thorough and insistent once he sets his sights on you and it's not long before the game starts feeling like a chore when you have to read walls of text and reiterate over and over about some things he doesn't like. On top of that there was a good number of people who wanted to lynch him at first so we may be able to frame them for his murder.
ZFR can also be problematic but under the current circumstances I feel he's the lesser evil. RW, Joe and Catte can magically pull stuff out of their hats to ruin us as well but since we can only try and take one person down I'd say they are lower priority at the moment. Also some of them have people suspecting them already. Maybe we can manage to get one of them lynched.
Alternatively there is the option for a low-info kill where we hit someone obscure but most of them are either under suspicion or new/inexperienced.
4. Last but not least - I apologize that I went against you like I did but your absence and limited content is something I would have almost certainly not like as Town and I assumed most of the regular players also wouldn't feel too good about it. I figured I better be among the first to point fingers rather than keep a blind eye and then having to explain myself to Catte, ZFR, HSL and RW. We were lucky that pretty much everyone gave you the newbie pass but on D2 you'll have to kick it up a notch, otherwise I'm afraid they might be back for more and then I don't know what will happen. I'll also need to have a believable reason to reconsider my stance from D1.
Consider all of the above just musings based on my past experiences with our fellow players. I don't want to be the sole driver and am open to any and all suggestions in case you don't agree with something or have another interesting idea. If you feel like just getting crazy we can drop any strategy and just do whatever feels the most fun. To be perfectly honest I'm afraid the game may have escaped our grasp a little bit after losing 1/3 of our merry team so early on against such sharp players.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 3:21:02 GMT
Just one clarification, and quoting Lift here exactly (and I hope that shouldn't be a problem), but my power is described as such: "You can target someone and they can then not be targeted by any other powers". So I can't target someone to be rolestopped, instead I target a person, and no role can act on them. In the case you're worried about being found out, if we decide a NK, I could target that person, and then anyone watching them would find nothing.
The way the game flavour worked (from what I read), it seems that every person has their own soul, except us, I don't think any of the other characters have your soul, which is why it is a bit confusing.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 3:28:16 GMT
I am not sure how the tracker role would work, but I'm guessing that you're not under suspicion from anyone tonight, so I doubt anyone would be watching you. I was worried that I am, but that can't be helped, because Lift told me I cannot self-target (to prevent a role acting on me). So if we still want to target Frost, and someone is protecting him or watching him, I would be able to stop them by targetting Frost, and you could still kill him. I have no idea about the specifics of what his role might be and how powerful or dangerous it would be for us.
As for when I'd be free for a longer discussion, I suppose you can reply during my work hours (now until about 9 hours from now), and I'd be able to probably reply. I'd be much more free after that, but then only for the next 5 hours or so (life if busy :( ), after which I sleep.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 3:29:34 GMT
I just realised, if I target Frost, it might be that then you wouldn't be able to kill him. Maybe The GOGFather can chime in to clarify that.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 3:51:49 GMT
Actually, never mind, you're a strongman, so it wouldn't make any difference
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 4:10:31 GMT
Also, for my own knowledge, could you explain the suspicions that lead to bucktooth getting lynched, dedop ? Because I honestly didn't see him behaving the most suspiciously, and it almost seemed random.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 7:51:00 GMT
I get it now. I think you're right and our roles are likely intended to be used in tandem as you describe - you clean up everyone from the target and I still pass through. This would negate a Watcher acting on the same target as normally they would see me [and possibly others] but in this case they'll get jack. Each of us would still get caught by a Cop or a Tracker. The Tracker follows someone and sees who they visit - in the case above a Tracker would see me or you visiting Frostburn and in the morning when he flips dead they have a pretty good guess that the killer likely was whomever they followed.
If you target me you'll negate a Tracker or a Cop investigating me (they can still see you acting on me but that can be anything) and Ill handle any Doctors, Blockers and Jailers targeting Frostburn. A Watcher acting on Frostburn would still see me visit him. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears this path covers the most cases and appears to be the more beneficial of the two. It's unfortunate you can't target yourself as you can't hide but we can and probably should come up with fake claims that correspond to what we decide we're doing.
For example I can claim I'm a Commuter (I leave the town during the Night and no one can act on me). If someone Tracks or Cops me they'll fail because you hid me and the Commuter would be a good explanation why they failed. If someone Tracks you and see you visit me you can also claim your action on me, whatever it was supposed to be, failed and you don't know why. At the same time I think it's somewhat unusual for scum members to act upon each other so maybe that can also work in our defense. Also, if you're asked why you targeted me you can simply say you didn't like how I attacked you during D1 which would be a nice continuation of your response to me.
How about this - you claim Jailer. It doesn't even matter what my claim is, you'll be the reason for one another person couldn't target me. Your reason for doing it was that you suspected me and you Jailed me to block me.
Of course that will work only for so long but this is a problem anyway. If I'm counting correctly and we aren't killed off any more both of us need to survive (and mislynch) for 3 consecutive Days which is quite a lot with so many strong players.
More to come in a bit.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 8:04:10 GMT
The way the game flavour worked (from what I read), it seems that every person has their own soul, except us, I don't think any of the other characters have your soul, which is why it is a bit confusing. This is something I wanted to ask your opinion about. The way I understood this whole debacle was the some people got their bodies switched and others didn't. New souls came into their bodies and that's how they got their special powers (or became scum). I may be wrong here but my understanding is that Town Vanillas maybe have their original souls while having another character's soul in your body would signify that you have a special power or are scum. Add to that the weakness of my own role - not being able to kill the person who carries Guybrush's soul - if my previous suspicion is true there is someone among us who has proof (it's possible they don't realize they have it and what it means) that I'm not a Vanilla. I think the flip of a real Vanilla Townie would help us figure out what's going on.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 8:11:18 GMT
As for people turning on buck in the end - I don't think there was a specific trigger for that. He was sort of coasting, not taking strong side nor commit to some of the things he was saying. HSL also seemed to have a meta read on him in having the expectation to go the extra mile in streamlining wagons like he did in past game but didn't put in the same effort this time. I don't think this would have been enough in other circumstances but in this case effectively half of the cast was under new player protection and most of the rest weren't scum-read by enough people to get trampled. I was hoping that RW's lynch to go through but he made an effort in producing good content near the end while buck not so much. So they turned on him. That's why I had him on my suspect list as well but I was hoping I won't have to honor that promise.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 9:10:49 GMT
This means that one of the PR town roles (possibly Frost?) would be the ones with your soul? Dangerous. I wonder if the roles are themed after the characters.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling nobody would be suspecting you today, unless one of the other players has a personal vendetta/meta read off of you. So me protecting you would not really be useful, and it might be more useful for me to target whoever we decide to attack (I'm guessing Frost).
If someone is watching ME, however, that won't help me, but maybe we can figure a way to talk out of that situation.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 10:00:04 GMT
That's the thing - it's not just about suspicion. A lot of people have a hard time getting a read on my as either alignment. It's pretty common to investigate an unknown rather than someone you already suspect. As for personal meta - last time the scum investigate me specifically on N1 which effectively busted up my whole plan, they killed and blocked me on the second night and ultimately we lost (not just because I was dead but I was a very important role and they picked me just to pick me). Then again they were the mafia and were covering their asses which worked awesome for them. In this case you may be right, though. I sort of forget that we have all the newbies who are fair game for night actions on N1.
I'm still pretty reluctant to leave HSL live after the way the D1 ended (and make no mistake, he'll be coming for you on D2) but if you want Frostburn dealt with I'm fine with that.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 10:27:38 GMT
I didn't quite pick up on Frost's "claim" either, any idea what sort of role he could have, and how dangerous it might be? That might factor into our decision, although from reading through the thread he didn't seem to voice any suspicions on either of us.
Do you think anyone else feels HSL would be in danger tonight (so as to be guarding/watching him)?
In my perception, either:
1- You NK Frost, and I use my power on him to protect you from any detectives/watchers/guardians (not that would bother you)/whatever. The next day if it comes to that, I can claim I wanted to try and protect Frost, but my protection was nullified (exposing your role, but not you) 2- You NK HSL, and I use my power on YOU to protect you from anything anyone might be doing to you (although again, I don't feel there's any reason anyone would be suspicious of you). The next day if it comes to that, I can claim I wanted to investigate you because I was suspicious of you
The thing that troubles me about the 2nd option (other than I don't really think you need my "protection" tonight, at least, with a lot more suspicious people about) is that then the next day, when HSL is dead, the only person who voted against him and felt attacked by him (me) would come under suspicion.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 10:54:34 GMT
Absolutely no idea what his role is. Could be whatever. He did drop it quite freely so maybe it's not something super duper powerful otherwise he might have been more careful to keep it a secret but who knows. Maybe he got scared a bit too much and it was a knee-jerk reaction to state that he has value still.
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Post by babark on Jun 21, 2022 11:05:31 GMT
I think there's a case to be made for just NKing Frost. It's the totally expected thing to do, so wouldn't play into any reads or anything anyone may have, so we'd have at the very least, one more day of confusion after which to NK HSL (or someone else if it comes to that).
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 11:08:15 GMT
1- You NK Frost, and I use my power on him to protect you from any detectives/watchers/guardians (not that would bother you)/whatever. The next day if it comes to that, I can claim I wanted to try and protect Frost, but my protection was nullified (exposing your role, but not you) What would your claimed role be in that case? Keep in mind that both our roles suggest some sort of protection on Town's side so if you claim another one people may suspect you for it. Or hard counter-claim you. Also, it's probably a good idea to think of some flavor that goes with your fake claim.
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dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
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Post by dedop on Jun 21, 2022 11:12:53 GMT
I'm fine with killing Frostburn. But do fasten your seatbelt as you'll be under suspicion anyway from D1. In my opinion you'd have been on the hot seat on D1 if you weren't under newbie protection. This hasn't gone away and will likely be back with a vengeance on D2 so you need to get ready to defend yourself and put in a lot more work to fend the bloodthirsty mob off. That goes with or without HSL but he will be among the more unrelenting attackers for sure.
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