Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 5, 2022 15:10:14 GMT
Ok, now I am home. I had some time to digest all the bew developments and this is what I can say: • I feel amazed by HSL. •• Yes, he convinced me that Catte is most likely Town. Simply because I did not see this myself, but an argument that scum!Catte (which I experienced) was lively and ferocious, while in this game stale as a week old bread loaf dried in the sun, ultimately looks true. Explanation for such indifference - Catte is Vanilla Town and what the heck can he do with that? •• HSL made me doubt RWarehall and even if RWarehall is Town, I still think it is a good thing. Simply because I am exercising a different perspective. If HSL had not pointed out that RWarehall might be scum, I am pretty sure I still would have come to such idea sometime much later. •• If HSL actually redirected dedoporno's kill onto me: ••• @hsl (for when you read this) - why did you not redirect dedo's action to dedoporno himself? Would you be able to redirect action back to the player, who made said action? You said, you suspected dedoporno since D2. My guess is, you wanted to question him, to find out another scum. ••• Which makes me ask this: did you find me scummy? Does it mean, you gave Babark benefit of a doubt? I was scummier than Razza and Catte? Just curious. •• That's about it for now, I lost train of thought and went to the forest. • Dedoporno did not immediately vote HSL for "lying". A Town thing to do, would have been to vote HSL. • Even though I suspect RWarehall to be scum and I may be wrong, it only says about my judgement. Actually I have a lot of respect to RWarehall. The way he expresses himself is clear, sometimes complicated as in "5 steps ahead" and in the end... The biggest reason to suspect RWarehall is because he looks too Towny. As in, too good to be true 😂 The thinking style reminds me of Cadaver, walls of text divided by a factor of 3 and minus every possibility possible, sticking to like 3 most likely ones. ... Again, I am out of juice. I wanted to writing something more. I see dedoporno's lunch is ordered, lets see it served and go from there. All things considered, looks like dedoporno is indeed scum, but to me - only based on HSL's words. I don't see scum!dedo by the way he played ... Edit: CarnethystPhoenix, you can edit your posts in this, Observer's, thread all you want. I often edited mine, but only to correct a typing mistake or to add more points. No Editing is a rule to follow in GOG forum Mafia game thread and in Mafia chat (or any chat, but Mod will say which). Observers are just a bunch of people, sharing ideas and spoilers. This thread is hidden now, to not give spoilers to active players and not to influence the game by giving them our golden ideas about current events.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 15:10:42 GMT
I give AZ some space to breath, because for good sportsmanship, we choose to believe rl things and not to missuse rl reasons to further our in-game goal. You know, we are a good bunch of people like that. So, imagine yourself in AZ's shoes: driving, eating, sleeping, sightseeing with partner, moving or whatever. Takes a lot of time. All he can do, is come back to us as much as possible and makes his few posts really count. Or inform Mod and discuss flexible timelines. I am getting impression that AZ is vanilla Town though. ... For whatever reason, it makes me laugh every time you call Babark "Baba" 😄 ... To do nothing to prevent you scum buddy from getting lynched is one thing. Voting together with Town, and pushing your scum buddy towards lynch is entirely different. And I don't see dedo+Babark team, because I don't see Babark viting his last scum buddy. Unless they both agreed to do so, in case dedoporno gets caught. ...
I'm assuming that Az didn't contact Lift because of the heated status that he earned. Oh, I'm not implying anything other than that he really should be contacting Lift about his schedule and maybe ask to have the vote held for a few hours to give him the chance to participate.
--
I kept messing up typing out Babark's username when I'm not staring at it and decided to just shorten it to Baba. I figured that nobody would be confused and think that I'm referring to the cute little sheep in Baba is You. hempuli.itch.io/baba
And saying that, I'm really rooting for him to be on the town side just for the mental image of Bobbin Threadbare (Babark's public persona/identity) being followed by an entire flock of sheep. LOOM would have worked with sheep.
Also if Dedo is mafia, then Baba is 100% Town. RW's offer to check him out is not needed and if anything, it makes RW look +90% more suspicious. Anyway, I need to go away for a bit - just finished breakfast and want to go take a shower before I get into any potentially longish posts.
However before that....
More Vote Updates!! 929 Catte votes dedo
930 RW votes dedo 932 HSL votes dedo
Count Baba 1 - Razza 875 Joe 1 - Catte 808 Dedo 5 - baba 911, ZFR 913, Catte 929, RW 930, HSL 932
not voting: Az, Joe, Dedo
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 15:12:21 GMT
Even though I suspect RWarehall to be scum and I may be wrong, it only says about my judgement. Actually I have a lot of respect to RWarehall. The way he expresses himself is clear, sometimes complicated as in "5 steps ahead" and in the end... The biggest reason to suspect RWarehall is because he looks too Towny.
No. He doesn't look town at all.
Let me take my shower, then I'll explain when I get back.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 5, 2022 15:23:04 GMT
Even though I suspect RWarehall to be scum and I may be wrong, it only says about my judgement. Actually I have a lot of respect to RWarehall. The way he expresses himself is clear, sometimes complicated as in "5 steps ahead" and in the end... The biggest reason to suspect RWarehall is because he looks too Towny.
No. He doesn't look town at all.
Let me take my shower, then I'll explain when I get back.
Yes, please, and don't forget to finish the story. I am interested to hear it.
|
|
|
Post by The GOGFather on Jul 5, 2022 16:03:41 GMT
Welcome dedoporno!
|
|
|
Post by CarnethystPhoenix on Jul 5, 2022 16:04:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The GOGFather on Jul 5, 2022 16:05:29 GMT
Dessimu: Cadaver doesn't seem to have an account here. At least I can't add a Cadaver to the thread.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 5, 2022 16:10:42 GMT
Ahh, shame about Cadaver. I would have enjoyed his comments.
WELCOME, DEDOPORNO, you strong scum, you.
@dedoporno, what does "hampered" mean?
Also, I swear, I did not see this coming. If I was alive, there is a good chance I would not have voted you at all, all game long. Not only that, but I would have tried to prove my townyness to you 😂😂😂
|
|
|
Post by CarnethystPhoenix on Jul 5, 2022 16:37:42 GMT
I Think it's babark now. Dedo and babark have identical entries in Joe's game, and rolestopper makes more sense as scum than town.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 5, 2022 16:59:00 GMT
Yeah, I am voting Babark too.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 17:41:48 GMT
Yes, please, and don't forget to finish the story. I am interested to hear it.
If you mean the one where I was on team mafia and just let one of my team mates get lynched to protect myself, I'll make that as a separate post because I want to keep this one strictly on RW - If you look at RW's Post #927 - He's telling Baba to not use his night power on the basis that he will confirm to everyone that Baba is not mafia based on him performing no actions while the mafia performs a kill.
If RW is Town, he should realize that HSL just put a ginormous target on his own back. He should also realize that there is no value in telling a town-aligned player that may have a protective role to not use that power and leave the rest of the team vulnerable, especially at this point in the game. He should also know that there are role modifiers that allow you to just bypass a motion detector.
Instead of using motion detector to confirm Baba that he doesn't suspect, why doesn't he use it on Razza or Catte?
Although HSL has a protective role in a sense, it doesn't completely stop an action from occurring. He can only target an individual and deflect their night actions onto someone else. (See Post #890)
Additionally, the way the role is written on mafiascum.net, the redirector role would not allow HSL to redirect night actions back onto the person that performed them. He is not the mirror. I think this is true for this game because he otherwise could have deflected Dedo's night action back onto Dedo and left everyone wondering what the hell just happened when a mafia member showed up dead the next day, which would be a lot easier than trying to convince everyone into joining in on a lynch. wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector
I also think that we (either myself on night 1, or you on night 2) would have made for great targets. There really is nothing for vanilla townies to do except to vote for lynches and get the mafia to waste their night kills on us. I completely approve of HSL's redirection target choice, which I'm putting in bold as I also think that there is a chance that he will be joining us here when the night is over.
If RW is Mafia, getting even one protective role to not use their power works to his advantage. HSL can still target RW and redirect his kill onto someone else, but it still results in someone dying overnight even if not the intended person.... versus Baba potentially using his power to outright block an action from occurring in the first place so that nobody dies and forcing RW into a situation of having to pick a target that Baba isn't likely to be protecting if he wants to have his night kill.
He'll still have HSL to contend with the next day if HSL lives, but Mafia RW is in a lot better position going into the next day with at least someone dead versus nobody dead.
Another thing to consider with RW is that you and I both were getting Mafia vibes from whoever he appeared to be getting cozy with. First we thought Joe looked mafia, then Baba, then back to Joe for a bit, and now back to Baba. At this point in the game, Joe and Baba both cannot be mafia as I think that four would be too many for a 12-person game. It's more likely that RW is mafia and is really adept at projecting his own guilt onto others.
PS - Welcome Dedo!! <3
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 18:08:04 GMT
Now if Babark is Mafia, this creates its own issue -
He's revealed the power identity of his special role as Green Tentacle. If anyone is going to be mafia AND be able to completely bypass all investigators, it is Green Tentacle. It is more likely that Green doesn't have any blocking roles an instead is a Ninja Godfather that doesn't appear to be leaving their house and always looks innocent if investigated.
Maniac Mansion - Green is friendly unless you play the tentacle mating calls or show him a recording contract, both of which result in him killing your character.
Day of the Tentacle - Purple drinks toxic sludge, plots to take over the world, and Dr Edison responds by locking both tentacles up with the intentions of having them both killed. Green contacts Bernard for help, and Bernard sets them both loose because Green doesn't mention that Purple is dangerous. This is how the game starts. If RW is Town, he should consider that while Baba has been forthcoming about his power's identity, he's been somewhat muddled about what it actually does.
This is the other problem that I have with these two in that while I was able to eventually see a 100% Town Joe, these two have been too tangled up with each other.
The best case scenario is going to be HSL correctly determining which is mafia and redirecting their actions onto the other.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 5, 2022 18:50:27 GMT
Catventurer, I am a bit miss-focused right now. So, I will come back to your latest posts a little later. Just wanted to share one idea that occured to me. Ever since Babark said he is a Rolestopper, we read the wiki and found out that Strongman can ignore Rolestopper's protection and still perform the kill. Now, I don't know what "hampered" means, but Dedoporno flipped Mafia Strongman. Dedoporno and Babark are not in team together. Dedoporno's role is basically the only one that can overcome/ignore Babark. We have achieved balance. So, I say: • Babark is not lying, he really is Town!Rolestopper, based on dedoporno's flip • HSL really is super duper uber Town. There was absolutely no need for scum!HSL to make a case on scum!dedoporno and get him lynched • RWarehall is Town. He actually was simply helping new players. His logic tracks in Town's favor. He may have been wrong about his targets, but his approach was correct, given the information Town had to work with. • Joe is scum. RWarehall did not see Joe move, because dedoporno did the kill N2 (confirmed by HSL). Wether Joe has a role or not - no idea. He may have chosen or was unable to use it. Joe picked up my question to Babark, made a case and did everything he could to make Babark trip over himself. Joe brought up the Desperado thing soecifically to dedoporno, as a tactic for them to apply. They had to do this kind of coordination, because they don't have Mafia Day chat. Lastly, Joe did not vote dedoporno, but he was around during the end of Day. • question now is, who Joe will kill? I could go deeper into it, but random guess based on nothing - RWarehall.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 19:44:23 GMT
Catventurer , I am a bit miss-focused right now. So, I will come back to your latest posts a little later. Just wanted to share one idea that occured to me. Ever since Babark said he is a Rolestopper, we read the wiki and found out that Strongman can ignore Rolestopper's protection and still perform the kill. Now, I don't know what "hampered" means, but Dedoporno flipped Mafia Strongman. Dedoporno and Babark are not in team together. Dedoporno's role is basically the only one that can overcome/ignore Babark. We have achieved balance.
Actually, I really did figure out the hampered part!!!!!! No speculation on this.
Give me a few minutes as I need to get something for lunch going.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 20:15:59 GMT
Hampered only means "to restrict the movement of by bonds or obstacles."
The Strongman role is normally one which is able to perform kills and not have them blocked or restricted by any means. MafiaScum.net states specifically that roleblockers, the doctor, bulletproof status and other proctions cannot stop it. It states that even a bodyguard would not die from trying to protect someone from a strongman as he wouldn't be able to protect the intended target in the first place.
HSL stated that he used his Town Redirector power to change Dedo's target from whoever it actually was to Dessimu. This would mean that because Dedo was the Mafia Hampered Strongman, it meant that his strongman ability isn't absolute. He could be redirected off of his intended target to someone else.
Side Question -- Am I correct in thinking that mafia members don't trigger night actions just from meeting up with each other at night? One of them has to actively go out to perform the night kill, and only that person would trigger any movement if someone was watching them.
When I played years ago, mafia had to specifically leave their house each night to meet up with each other at their hideout then would perform kills as a group. This is why I was willing to accept Joe as not mafia because a RW + Joe + Babark team didn't make sense with Buck already eliminated.
|
|
|
Post by CarnethystPhoenix on Jul 5, 2022 21:12:49 GMT
Hampered only means "to restrict the movement of by bonds or obstacles."
The Strongman role is normally one which is able to perform kills and not have them blocked or restricted by any means. MafiaScum.net states specifically that roleblockers, the doctor, bulletproof status and other proctions cannot stop it. It states that even a bodyguard would not die from trying to protect someone from a strongman as he wouldn't be able to protect the intended target in the first place.
HSL stated that he used his Town Redirector power to change Dedo's target from whoever it actually was to Dessimu. This would mean that because Dedo was the Mafia Hampered Strongman, it meant that his strongman ability isn't absolute. He could be redirected off of his intended target to someone else.
Side Question -- Am I correct in thinking that mafia members don't trigger night actions just from meeting up with each other at night? One of them has to actively go out to perform the night kill, and only that person would trigger any movement if someone was watching them.
When I played years ago, mafia had to specifically leave their house each night to meet up with each other at their hideout then would perform kills as a group. This is why I was willing to accept Joe as not mafia because a RW + Joe + Babark team didn't make sense with Buck already eliminated.
No, redirector changes targets. Strongarm doesn't defend against that, just stuff like doctors.
Speaking of doctors, razza or babark will be NK almost certainly. And the other will likely be scum.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 5, 2022 22:48:53 GMT
I never dealt with redirectors before. They didn't exist when I last played it.... And perhaps I shouldn't be digging through the wiki trying to understand how roles work. In the past, it was always a game where you find these types of things out as you play the game while also being constantly lied to by absolutely everyone. For similar reason, you never really get to know how mafia team works until you play on that side... lots of fumbling about, especially with how fast the games were.
|
|
|
Post by CarnethystPhoenix on Jul 6, 2022 2:09:26 GMT
I thought scum!Hyper wouldn't bus like this because it would look bad for him if he survives the night, but i just realized the strongarm is dead, so excuses are plentiful.
50/50 on Hyper and babark.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 6, 2022 8:35:58 GMT
I got busy, can't come back to you for now. lifthrasil, when will D4 start? ... Catventurer, reading wiki is a good way to get yourself better acquainted with the roles in general, but it doesn't mean, that Mod will use them word for word. Can't trust wiki 100% as each Mod and each game can bring it's own special circumstances and variations. ... Also, Catventurer, in our GOG Mafia games, scum do not trigger movement by default simply for talking in their scum chat (this is equal to meeting as you said). Instead, movement is triggered by a player who either makes a kill or uses their special power. With this logic, a Town Vanilla will absolutely never ever move during the night. For that to change, moderator would have to invent some kind role like "teleporter" or straight up write a flavor, where scum are just dragging sleeping townies around the Town at night 😂😂 ... And HSL did good by redirecting kill onto me, simply for the reason, that if alive, I would have been very vocal during the Day, slightly defended dedoporno, called for RWarehall's head and suspected Babark like crazy, ultimately helping Joe to achieve his goal, distracting Town away from scum (unintentionally) and in the end, most likely would have gotten myself lynched, not killed. What to do, it happens.
|
|
|
Post by The GOGFather on Jul 6, 2022 9:58:09 GMT
D4 will start tomorrow. I.e. some time on Thursday. Afternoon or evening.
|
|
dedop
Quicktopic Mourner
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
|
Post by dedop on Jul 6, 2022 12:02:26 GMT
Hello there! WELCOME, DEDOPORNO, you strong scum, you. @dedoporno, what does "hampered" mean? Also, I swear, I did not see this coming. If I was alive, there is a good chance I would not have voted you at all, all game long. Not only that, but I would have tried to prove my townyness to you 😂😂😂 Not strong enough, apparently :) "Hampered" means there is certain someone I can't kill no matter what. I'm not sure if Lift is OK for me to say more.
|
|
|
Post by The GOGFather on Jul 6, 2022 12:25:26 GMT
Hmm. Since that component is still hidden I would prefer if you don't explain to whom you refer.
However, it is correct that you could be re-directed (other than the standard Strongman). That part of your PM can safely be revealed, since it is apparent anyhow.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 6, 2022 12:29:43 GMT
Woah, interesting. Curious to see if we can guess, who this special someone is, later. Based on nothing, I am guessing ZFR.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 6, 2022 15:12:24 GMT
Also, Catventurer , in our GOG Mafia games, scum do not trigger movement by default simply for talking in their scum chat (this is equal to meeting as you said). Instead, movement is triggered by a player who either makes a kill or uses their special power. With this logic, a Town Vanilla will absolutely never ever move during the night. For that to change, moderator would have to invent some kind role like "teleporter" or straight up write a flavor, where scum are just dragging sleeping townies around the Town at night 😂😂 ... And HSL did good by redirecting kill onto me, simply for the reason, that if alive, I would have been very vocal during the Day, slightly defended dedoporno, called for RWarehall's head and suspected Babark like crazy, ultimately helping Joe to achieve his goal, distracting Town away from scum (unintentionally) and in the end, most likely would have gotten myself lynched, not killed. What to do, it happens. The logic was that mafia had to leave their homes and meet up somewhere. The only two exceptions were the godfather and ninja. Godfather didn't leave their house and instead everyone came to him. The person who ran the games was a huge fan of Naruto, so the flavor text for the ninja involved the actual player staying home and sending two shadow clones out the back door - one to meet up with the other mafia and the other to perform a solo kill on the side. Although if you think about it, all those people going to the Godfather's house should have triggered the motion detector multiple times over and have the watcher wondering what the hell is going on over there.
But that puts a different perspective on Joe. He doesn't get an automatic pass just because RWarehall didn't detect movement on a specific night.
And as for Dedoporn's very special someone... Considering that his role was Guybrush Threepwood possessed by LeChuck, it has to be Elaine Marley (Detective_Razza.) Although I like your suggestion of ZFR as it would imply that our non-canon mafia LeChuck has moved past his Elaine Marley fixation and is looking for love elsewhere.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 6, 2022 15:30:44 GMT
Catventurer, woah, your games sound both action packed and power role packed. If mafia was so powerful, able to send clones, what Town had? It's interesting to hear different kinds of setups for Mafia games, as until now, it was practically unthinkable for me, that there could be any other format for game, other than what we have in GOG forum. ... Curious thought about dedoporno and Razza. Based on flavor, I like it.
|
|
|
Post by CarnethystPhoenix on Jul 6, 2022 16:47:55 GMT
I don't see a goon, weakened strongarm and rolestopper as being balanced against what we've seen of town. So I'm pretty sure it's Hyper with some very strong role.
As for who dedo couldn't kill, obviously Elaine Marley town governor. As to who that is, I am clueless.
|
|
Catventurer
Quicktopic Mourner
Who is your favourite fearless hero?
|
Post by Catventurer on Jul 6, 2022 19:34:19 GMT
Catventurer , woah, your games sound both action packed and power role packed. If mafia was so powerful, able to send clones, what Town had? It's interesting to hear different kinds of setups for Mafia games, as until now, it was practically unthinkable for me, that there could be any other format for game, other than what we have in GOG forum. ... Curious thought about dedoporno and Razza. Based on flavor, I like it.
You have to consider that different websites have different types of people. Games were larger with 20+ players even though it was a much smaller website than GOG. This was a site full of book nerds that were taking a break from reading books to either talk about books or do other stuff. Almost all games had a lot of power roles on both the mafia and town site. Games ran fast because there was no patience even for games running on a 24-hour day/night cycle.
Oh and it's funny that Az was referring to me as Cthulhu in the game thread because we sometimes did use the Cult Leader. The only way to really attempt to balance the cult's ability to grow each night was to make it so that recruitment was not 100% by assigning skill check values to other roles, including vanilla townsfolk (which were the easiest to recruit) and some roles could not be recruited at all. Players would also loose their special role functions if they were successfully recruited because if Hastur the Unspeakable just shows up in your living room to say "hey pal, you're joining my happy fun cult," you're joining that happy fun cult. How we dealt with the cult should the cult leader die really depended a lot on where the game was at and how many members were left.
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 7, 2022 4:32:13 GMT
I don't see a goon, weakened strongarm and rolestopper as being balanced against what we've seen of town. So I'm pretty sure it's Hyper with some very strong role.
As for who dedo couldn't kill, obviously Elaine Marley town governor. As to who that is, I am clueless. Me neither. More importantly, I don't see rolestopper and strongman being in the same, because one is made to overcome another. And since dedoporno!strongman is mafia, this makes babark!rolestopper Town. My guess, is that third scum is Joe ... Catventurer. One time I tried to organize a game in my mind, which also had cult element. I remember having thought of the same detail, that if Town PR is recruited, they lose their special power. But I never ran the game. And I think different games also depend on the capabilities of the forum. You know, technical things. Like Razza said, they used some kind of color system. We simply don't have that in our forum. So sometimes games are different out of necessity to adapt. Which is also cool!
|
|
Dessimu
Quicktopic Mourner
Irish coffee good
|
Post by Dessimu on Jul 7, 2022 9:08:04 GMT
I just saw in GOG forum, admins removed the Reputation count from under our names. Now everyone is repless. However, I feel like this is just a "cosmetic" update. As in, system is there, we just don't see it.
|
|
|
Post by The GOGFather on Jul 7, 2022 11:42:46 GMT
Micro has decided not to be a sub anymore and rather join the observer thread. Welcome, micro!
|
|