Janitors don't worry about that. (Mafia 81 Observer Thread)

[The GOGFather]

As the only lone janitor, Terressa, who gets to witness this spectacle from the office... you're kinda confused about what's even going on. Think you can pick up on it? Who's who, and what's what?

[The GOGFather]

I gotta say, I'm really proud of how the flavor turned out. It's nothing too fantastical, but it's fun to look at.

...problem is, I'm not sure how to go about removing unwanted characters flavor-wise. Well, maybe having everyone who gets killed fired by Stuart is probably the best way LOL.

[maxleod]

You don't get to fire me, I QUIT HAHAHA

[maxleod]

But really, it sucks. In the morning I had only one vote, next thing I know I'mp lynched.

[The GOGFather]

Dec 16, 2023 6:16:46 GMT maxleod said:

You don't get to fire me, I QUIT HAHAHA

I wish I could write more of Miriam. She was kinda experimental for me.

But yes, it sucks you got that quickly lynched, but part of me thinks it was my fault for making the game that kinda short, just to give you more time to at least claim.

[The GOGFather]

The game is heating up and I like that. Sure the volume posts less than the ordinary but right off the bat the Jailkeeper is gone. Quite the dynamics there.

And Catventurer putting pressure on yogsloth is fun to see, too. Don't lynch lurkers, lynch surfers.

[yogsloth]

Well, I live by the maxim that when you get yeeted as a Townie, it's always your fault. I guess my usual "make a loud noise early Day 1 to get people talking" only works sometimes. Other times it just devolves into "kill the guy making noise". I didn't find any wolves and I didn't manage to be a leader. All I did was get myself killed.

And if the wolves do kill a townie, and the neutral sides with the wolves, the game is effectively over. As I mentioned, all the three of them have to do is refuse to vote and it's done.

[The GOGFather]

I haven't thought about that angle of the neutral, to be honest. All I did was decrease Town's numerical advantage by making the extra player able to side with Mafia and end the game earlier. I hope it doesn't come down to this from a sportsmanship angle, but if it does happen it'll be completely valid.

[yogsloth]

Supplement thinks I did a terrible job defending myself. I usually think the best way to show your towniness is to give all your thoughts and reads on the other players with quality reasoning, and honestly, I don't think I could have done a better job of that. So... I don't really know what I could have done different. I'm always my usual early Day 1 "flip the table and do something absurd" self. Not gonna change that. When town - especially vanilla town - what else can anybody do, other than play hard and do your best to "defend" your towniness by just working hard to observe and comment?

I could have done a better job of finding the wolves, of course, since I didn't find any. I mean, I guess time will tell if my reads were any good or not, but I don't have tons of confidence.

Stil, like I said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and my job of "defending" myself got me killed, so fair enough.

And cat made it super obvious at the very end there she was the friendly town thing, with her "are you insinuating something" bit, so they probably didn't even need to have rolecopped her the previous night.

[Catventurer]

Jan 1, 2024 20:45:59 GMT yogsloth said:

And cat made it super obvious at the very end there she was the friendly town thing, with her "are you insinuating something" bit, so they probably didn't even need to have rolecopped her the previous night.

You're forgetting that you had me 100% convinced that you were the Mafia Rolecop, had used your night action on me, and was therefore signaling to your teammate.

[The GOGFather]

I like how GamezRanker is, well, looking at the wrong part of the Mafia Wiki. The link I put in the rules post leads to the New D3 setup and says very clearly that the neighbor can target one player every night.

I was mulling about interfering and correcting him on the fact (you know, because it's an open setup), but when I found that the link does clearly state the opposite of what, I think it's best for the other players to catch on to him.

[The GOGFather]

Jan 1, 2024 20:45:59 GMT yogsloth said:

I'm always my usual early Day 1 "flip the table and do something absurd" self. Not gonna change that. When town - especially vanilla town - what else can anybody do, other than play hard and do your best to "defend" your towniness by just working hard to observe and comment?

See, the thing is you insinuated you were much more significant than a Town Vanilla in an open setup game. Which probably would've worked if the first lynch wasn't the Town Jailkeeper in the flesh. Now the only Town power role left is the Neighbor, and so the Neighbor, Catventurer, had no choice but to believe you've got the only other remaining special role, the Mafia Rolecop. Looking at it this way, I think it makes sense how all of this played out against you.

Problem is there aren't a lot of setups for 10-player games that I could've drawn from and which didn't lean on being too gimmicky, so I didn't really think over the implications of the setup.

[yogsloth]

Jan 2, 2024 16:18:20 GMT Catventurer said:

Jan 1, 2024 20:45:59 GMT yogsloth said:

And cat made it super obvious at the very end there she was the friendly town thing, with her "are you insinuating something" bit, so they probably didn't even need to have rolecopped her the previous night.

You're forgetting that you had me 100% convinced that you were the Mafia Rolecop, had used your night action on me, and was therefore signaling to your teammate.

Yeah, but mafia have their own way to communiate.  They wouldn't need to be using semaphore in thread.  

And *I* didn't convince you that I was mafia.  You did that your own self.  And then you couldn't be talked out of it.  It became confirmation bias - you convinced yourself I was not just mafia - but precisely the role cop - and then literally everything I said you saw as evidence to support that conclusion.  


However... my REAL problem was I didn't read the bleedin' game setup before my first post lmao

I'm so used to GOG using unknown setups where nobody has any idea what roles are in the game, that I just assumed I could go BLYAT and just start conversation... and then I realize, uh oh, it's a closed setup where everybody knows the roles ahead of time.  Plus, there were just too many players that haven't played a dozen games with me to know my style, and kaboom - I became an easy target.

[Catventurer]

Jan 3, 2024 1:20:32 GMT The GOGFather said:

Jan 1, 2024 20:45:59 GMT yogsloth said:

I'm always my usual early Day 1 "flip the table and do something absurd" self. Not gonna change that. When town - especially vanilla town - what else can anybody do, other than play hard and do your best to "defend" your towniness by just working hard to observe and comment?

See, the thing is you insinuated you were much more significant than a Town Vanilla in an open setup game. Which probably would've worked if the first lynch wasn't the Town Jailkeeper in the flesh. Now the only Town power role left is the Neighbor, and so the Neighbor, Catventurer, had no choice but to believe you've got the only other remaining special role, the Mafia Rolecop. Looking at it this way, I think it makes sense how all of this played out against you.

This is exactly what I have been saying.

[Catventurer]

Oh I find it interesting that they're still wondering as to who I sent a friendly neighbor message to on the first night. Obliviously not myself, so....

[The GOGFather]

I'd like to point out that while I stick to the Monday-Friday schedule for the game, admittedly, I'm now working as customer support, and I get to have a rotational schedule. This means I only know what my schedule for the current week looks like, but that's not the point. Recently, I've been given the night shift (4PM-1AM), and admittedly to write any of the flavor accompanied with the daily votecount, I'd have to do it when I'm on the verge of dozing off.

Ironically, this week I have Saturday and Sunday as day offs, only to resume work on Monday. I just hope I can write the final flip with flavor fitting for the occasion.

[Catventurer]

Jan 5, 2024 1:05:36 GMT The GOGFather said:

I'd like to point out that while I stick to the Monday-Friday schedule for the game, admittedly, I'm now working as customer support, and I get to have a rotational schedule. This means I only know what my schedule for the current week looks like, but that's not the point. Recently, I've been given the night shift (4PM-1AM), and admittedly to write any of the flavor accompanied with the daily votecount, I'd have to do it when I'm on the verge of dozing off.

Ironically, this week I have Saturday and Sunday as day offs, only to resume work on Monday. I just hope I can write the final flip with flavor fitting for the occasion.

Maybe write some of it ahead of time or at least as much of it as you can based on where the vote count currently sits. With things where they currently sit, they'll have to lynch Scene or joppo because there really hasn't been much of a push against anyone else so far on Day 3. Oh and that's also assuming that there's even a lynch at all.

Also having worked in customer support before, I hope that absolutely none of your customers do things like create problems for themselves then expect you to treat it as an emergency where the fate of the entire world is at stake.

[Catventurer]

Town really should try to lynch Lift just for what he suggested in post #272:

@town: actually at this point I think that a no Lynch would be better than a mislynch. It's a numbers game. A mislynch is a lose. We went through that.

His advise is just blatantly outright bad. I'm surprised that nobody is calling him out for it. I mean like the statistical odds are that mafia team night kills another town and not the neutral vanilla, especially after he posted in #253 trying to get the neutral vanilla to come forward and role claim. The fact that the neutral vanilla hasn't done this suggest that it is someone that has not completely given up on Town and is still willing to side with them. The only reason to claim your role as the neutral vanilla is to ensure that mafia knows who you are so that they night kill one of the actual Town and win the game.

However if Day 4 starts with 2 town, 2 mafia, and 1 neutral then the neutral will feel pressure at that point to withhold their vote and side with mafia. If mafia kills neutral on night 3, it won't matter that it is 3 town and 2 mafia - they just need to get at least one town to vote for another town then they win.

[The GOGFather]

Jan 5, 2024 3:47:22 GMT Catventurer said:

Also having worked in customer support before, I hope that absolutely none of your customers do things like create problems for themselves then expect you to treat it as an emergency where the fate of the entire world is at stake.

Well ironically enough, the customers aren't as bad as the operation guys on the floor. Since we're severely understaffed, we're supposed to take double chats (we're online chat) by default, on a system that's not built to seamlessly support double chats, all while the operation guys shout to make sure everyone is taking double chats or available for both slots. Naturally the operation guys make you lose focus while having double chats generally cause the gears in my brain to get stuck if the two customers are complaining about stuff that actually needs investigation and can't be solved by scripts or my training - i.e. I need to actually work to find an obscure piece of info.

The customers can generally be a pain in the ass but I think they could be worse. And for all the pain in the above sentence, at least the company is actually constantly bringing in fresh faces to solve the problem.

Also speaking of the game, yes, another no-lynch. Come the next game I play, I'm sure that whoever I latch on to, I'll still be accused of being opportunistic when clearly it's because I only trust myself to actually try and produce a lynch.

Incidentally, both teams have made the neutral even more powerful. Of course it's now up to Mafia if they keep the neutral or off him, accidentally or deliberately.

[Catventurer]

Jan 6, 2024 2:47:41 GMT The GOGFather said:

Also speaking of the game, yes, another no-lynch. Come the next game I play, I'm sure that whoever I latch on to, I'll still be accused of being opportunistic when clearly it's because I only trust myself to actually try and produce a lynch.

Incidentally, both teams have made the neutral even more powerful. Of course it's now up to Mafia if they keep the neutral or off him, accidentally or deliberately.

I don't really get that because I don't get opportunistic feels from you.

In the game where I outed you as mafia because I had investigated you, I would describe the situation more as you being a rat that has been concerned by a cat with no hopes of escape and acting more out of desperation. Even if they lynched me, they would just circle back and lynch you the next day. Your days were numbered in that game no matter what. Since I sometimes like to assign theme songs, yours for Day 2 of that game would be Bullet with Butterfly Wings by Smashing Pumpkins. "Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage."  www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0

In the other game where you were a Mason, my impression was that you were trying to reign Frost. Your efforts were quite Heroic really. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXgkuM2NhYI

--------

However I'm just putting it out there now. Regardless of who wins this game, Scene has been my MVP for Day 3.

My reason is because when it came to night 2, I first considered who would I pick for the night 2 kill even if I knew for a fact that person was the neutral vanilla: myself, Alto, MrKrabs, joppo, scene, Micro, Lift.

If you realize that I was telling the truth when I say that I will never bother saying outright lies, then you also know that based on comments I said in prior games that I'm only going to side with mafia if I'm forcibly stuck on mafia team. Since I'm not on their team and they lack a power role that would recruit me to their team (I'd rather be night killed), they should know that I'm not going to be their ally even if I was the neutral vanilla. This makes me the #1 night kill choice at this point.

Scene was the only person I felt with 100% certainty that he would actually tell everyone that he was the friendly neighbor target for night 2 if I was dead. It was never about his alignment per say, so much as that I was confident that he would assist me with creating a situation where everyone would have the opportunity to observe everyone else's reactions to someone making such an announcement.

Unfortunately, the rest of town kinda failed as nobody seems to have figured out what I was doing there, but....

I had one job for Scene, and he did it. Rock on fighting Santas!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7HGl_xXAcQ

[Catventurer]

Jan 6, 2024 2:47:41 GMT The GOGFather said:

Jan 5, 2024 3:47:22 GMT Catventurer said:

Also having worked in customer support before, I hope that absolutely none of your customers do things like create problems for themselves then expect you to treat it as an emergency where the fate of the entire world is at stake.

Well ironically enough, the customers aren't as bad as the operation guys on the floor. Since we're severely understaffed, we're supposed to take double chats (we're online chat) by default, on a system that's not built to seamlessly support double chats, all while the operation guys shout to make sure everyone is taking double chats or available for both slots. Naturally the operation guys make you lose focus while having double chats generally cause the gears in my brain to get stuck if the two customers are complaining about stuff that actually needs investigation and can't be solved by scripts or my training - i.e. I need to actually work to find an obscure piece of info.

The customers can generally be a pain in the ass but I think they could be worse. And for all the pain in the above sentence, at least the company is actually constantly bringing in fresh faces to solve the problem.

I used to do chat support, so I know what you mean by double chats. The most I've ever had to deal with was three at a time.

[yogsloth]

Well, Lift was Town so I really did blow it. Man, hard to imagine playing worse.

Sucks to suck as my kid would say.

Five players with two mafia and a neutral, so the neutral is kingmaker. I played a game on MU once in this situation where I was the neutral, and I hard-claimed at the start, and told the mafia to go ahead and identify themselves and I'd vote with them. And we did, for the win. It was cold and hilarious.

[Catventurer]

Jan 8, 2024 19:56:11 GMT yogsloth said:

Well, Lift was Town so I really did blow it. Man, hard to imagine playing worse.

Let's agree that it's entirely the theme's fault.

Town = team work in person

Mafia = team work from home

Subconsciously, we don't want to win.

[lifthrasil]

Hi there! Nice being dead/retired with you.

I wonder why no one questions micro about this post: www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_81_conspiracy_from_home/post258

Here he implies that he isn't the Neutral. And he didn't even contradict my conclusion that he implied this.
However, there is no counter claim yet. So maybe he is a very scummy Neutral after all. But it doesn't fit. Well, let's wait and see whether a counter claim yet occurs.

[lifthrasil]

Basically both remaining Town have now to vote for the same person or die. The Neutral will hammer whoever is at L-1 as soon as they can. They win, no matter who is lynched.

[Catventurer]

Jan 9, 2024 9:56:56 GMT lifthrasil said:

Hi there! Nice being dead/retired with you.

I wonder why no one questions micro about this post: www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_81_conspiracy_from_home/post258

Here he implies that he isn't the Neutral. And he didn't even contradict my conclusion that he implied this.
However, there is no counter claim yet. So maybe he is a very scummy Neutral after all. But it doesn't fit. Well, let's wait and see whether a counter claim yet occurs.

Hi Lift! My thoughts on that post is that Town doesn't want to win. It's like Day 2 when people were electing Yogs to the Friendly Neighbor role when there was no reason at all to do that. Also even if Mico is the Neutral, he could just be claiming so that mafia knows who not to night kill.

Also Scene is using faulty logic here: www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_81_conspiracy_from_home/post294
If Micro is the Neutral and has decided to side with mafia team, then his role claim was entirely to signal to them as to who not to night kill. Mafia team only needs to sit back, not vote with confidence that Micro won't either, and wait for the night phase.

[lifthrasil]

That's true too. In any case, if he is neutral, he is a quite scummy neutral.

Scum can now just wait for one Towny to place a false vote and then pile on. Or they wait for nolynch.

Town HAS to vote Scum today or lose.

[yogsloth]

Jan 8, 2024 23:49:14 GMT Catventurer said:

Jan 8, 2024 19:56:11 GMT yogsloth said:

Well, Lift was Town so I really did blow it. Man, hard to imagine playing worse.

Let's agree that it's entirely the theme's fault.

Town = team work in person

Mafia = team work from home

Subconsciously, we don't want to win.

I can roll with this!

I did say up front I'm on mafia's side in the game, didn't I?

[Catventurer]

Jan 9, 2024 19:15:18 GMT lifthrasil said:

That's true too. In any case, if he is neutral, he is a quite scummy neutral.

Micro could be a case of Neutral that was secretly siding with mafia team even on Day 1.

[The GOGFather]

Jan 6, 2024 4:10:19 GMT Catventurer said:

Jan 6, 2024 2:47:41 GMT The GOGFather said:

Well ironically enough, the customers aren't as bad as the operation guys on the floor. Since we're severely understaffed, we're supposed to take double chats (we're online chat) by default, on a system that's not built to seamlessly support double chats, all while the operation guys shout to make sure everyone is taking double chats or available for both slots. Naturally the operation guys make you lose focus while having double chats generally cause the gears in my brain to get stuck if the two customers are complaining about stuff that actually needs investigation and can't be solved by scripts or my training - i.e. I need to actually work to find an obscure piece of info.

The customers can generally be a pain in the ass but I think they could be worse. And for all the pain in the above sentence, at least the company is actually constantly bringing in fresh faces to solve the problem.

I used to do chat support, so I know what you mean by double chats. The most I've ever had to deal with was three at a time.

Did you have to deal with two (or even three) chats at a time while the system is barely unable to keep up with the constant window focus switching (due to it being barely accommodating of single chats to begin with), customers who are irate to begin with and could turn into supervisor/higher authority threats at the drop of a hat, and ridiculous time limits for silent gaps?

But at the same time, I get some cool benefits. Just this "VPN" line is insane, 35GBs of data a month all for myself, and 5,000 minutes to every operator in the country, 2,000 SMSes and 30 international minutes... A plan like this is usually expensive and I get to have it just for my labors. I do work more than at the job from before but this is nice, as someone who likes the internet a little bit too much.